A solution to the "well-regulated militia" question?

[Jon_in_london]

There has been loads of talk recently about the "well-regulated miltia" and the "right to bear arms will not be infringed".

Many of the pro-gun people emphasize solely the latter phrase while the anti-gun people emphasize the former (presumably, in the hope that the problems of regulation will discourage gun ownership).

I think we can find a middleground.

Basically, my plan calls for every gun owner to be compelled to first own a single-shot .22 target rifle. The owner would not be allowed to keep the rifle at home for the first six months but rather it would be stored safely at an authrorised rifle club. During this 6 month period the prospective owner would be taught marksmanship and saftey for a set fee. During this period a set number of shoots must be attended and completed to a satisfactory standard. Basic militia training should be given during this phase also.

After the 6 month probationary period, the succesfull candidate would be awarded his rifle and a certificate of achivement along with ownership of the rifle and the right to own a limited range of weapons similar to what is now permitted.

Gun owners should be required to attended further courses on an bi/annual basis as part of militia units with some similarity to the National Guard but a bit less intense.

While this would indeed infringe the right to bear arms, it would also create at least a semblance of a a "well regulated militia" National Defense, for the purpose of.

 

[Tmy]

Why go through all that???

In Mass. you have to take a gun safety course to get your permit. I think its a couple of hrs or sumthin. Im ok with that. THe real danger with guns is not that people cant shoot straight. Its that they are not stored correctly. Because of that they get stolen or kids get their hands on them.

People just want to have gusn for self protection, and some hunting. Why force them into paramillitary duty?

 

[Jon_in_london]

Why go through all that???

In Mass. you have to take a gun safety course to get your permit. I think its a couple of hrs or sumthin. Im ok with that. THe real danger with guns is not that people cant shoot straight. Its that they are not stored correctly. Because of that they get stolen or kids get their hands on them.

People just want to have gusn for self protection, and some hunting. Why force them into paramillitary duty?

Tmy, the issue is to get together a "well regulated militia". At the moment I think you will agree that there is no militia let a alone a well-regulated one. My idea means gun ownership conditional upon the participation in such a militia.

 

[rikzilla]

There has been loads of talk recently about the "well-regulated miltia" and the "right to bear arms will not be infringed".

Many of the pro-gun people emphasize solely the latter phrase while the anti-gun people emphasize the former (presumably, in the hope that the problems of regulation will discourage gun ownership).

I think we can find a middleground.

Basically, my plan calls for every gun owner to be compelled to first own a single-shot .22 target rifle. The owner would not be allowed to keep the rifle at home for the first six months but rather it would be stored safely at an authrorised rifle club. During this 6 month period the prospective owner would be taught marksmanship and saftey for a set fee. During this period a set number of shoots must be attended and completed to a satisfactory standard. Basic militia training should be given during this phase also.

After the 6 month probationary period, the succesfull candidate would be awarded his rifle and a certificate of achivement along with ownership of the rifle and the right to own a limited range of weapons similar to what is now permitted.

Gun owners should be required to attended further courses on an bi/annual basis as part of militia units with some similarity to the National Guard but a bit less intense.

While this would indeed infringe the right to bear arms, it would also create at least a semblance of a a "well regulated militia" National Defense, for the purpose of.

That's all very nice, but kinda smacks of "infringement" to me!

-z

 

[Luke T.]

There has been loads of talk recently about the "well-regulated miltia" and the "right to bear arms will not be infringed".

Many of the pro-gun people emphasize solely the latter phrase while the anti-gun people emphasize the former (presumably, in the hope that the problems of regulation will discourage gun ownership).

I think we can find a middleground.

Basically, my plan calls for every gun owner to be compelled to first own a single-shot .22 target rifle. The owner would not be allowed to keep the rifle at home for the first six months but rather it would be stored safely at an authrorised rifle club. During this 6 month period the prospective owner would be taught marksmanship and saftey for a set fee. During this period a set number of shoots must be attended and completed to a satisfactory standard. Basic militia training should be given during this phase also.

After the 6 month probationary period, the succesfull candidate would be awarded his rifle and a certificate of achivement along with ownership of the rifle and the right to own a limited range of weapons similar to what is now permitted.

Gun owners should be required to attended further courses on an bi/annual basis as part of militia units with some similarity to the National Guard but a bit less intense.

While this would indeed infringe the right to bear arms, it would also create at least a semblance of a a "well regulated militia" National Defense, for the purpose of.

My plan calls for every car owner to be compelled to first own a golf cart. The owner would not be allowed to keep the golf cart at home for the first six months but rather it would be safely stored at an authorized country club. During this six month period, the prospective owner would be taught parallel parking and safety for a set fee. During this period a set number of orange cones must be maneuvered around to a satisfactory standard. Basic road rules should be given during this period also.

After the 6 month probationary period, the successful candidate would be awarded his golf cart and a certificate of achivement along with ownership of the golf cart and the right to own a limited range of cars similar to what is now permitted. Because the more cars you own, the more likely you are to kill someone with one.

Car owners should be required to attended further courses on an bi/annual basis as part of traffic with some similarity to the Los Angeles freeway but a bit less intense.

Car ownership is not a right, but a privilege, so there would be no infringement of rights whatsoever. Since cars kill far more people than guns in America, it is only right we do this.

 

[Jon_in_london]

Re: Re: A solution to the "well-regulated militia" question?

My plan calls for every car owner to be compelled to first own a golf cart. The owner would not be allowed to keep the golf cart at home for the first six months but rather it would be safely stored at an authorized country club. During this six month period, the prospective owner would be taught parallel parking and safety for a set fee. During this period a set number of orange cones must be maneuvered around to a satisfactory standard. Basic road rules should be given during this period also.

After the 6 month probationary period, the successful candidate would be awarded his golf cart and a certificate of achivement along with ownership of the golf cart and the right to own a limited range of cars similar to what is now permitted. Because the more cars you own, the more likely you are to kill someone with one.

Car owners should be required to attended further courses on an bi/annual basis as part of traffic with some similarity to the Los Angeles freeway but a bit less intense.

Car ownership is not a right, but a privilege, so there would be no infringement of rights whatsoever. Since cars kill far more people than guns in America, it is only right we do this.

I would most certainly agree that a heck of a lot more training needs to be given to drivers. Sounds like a good plan Luke!

 

[Thanz]

Re: Re: A solution to the "well-regulated militia" question?

My plan calls for every car owner to be compelled to first own a golf cart. The owner would not be allowed to keep the golf cart at home for the first six months but rather it would be safely stored at an authorized country club. During this six month period, the prospective owner would be taught parallel parking and safety for a set fee. During this period a set number of orange cones must be maneuvered around to a satisfactory standard. Basic road rules should be given during this period also.

After the 6 month probationary period, the successful candidate would be awarded his golf cart and a certificate of achivement along with ownership of the golf cart and the right to own a limited range of cars similar to what is now permitted. Because the more cars you own, the more likely you are to kill someone with one.

Car owners should be required to attended further courses on an bi/annual basis as part of traffic with some similarity to the Los Angeles freeway but a bit less intense.

Car ownership is not a right, but a privilege, so there would be no infringement of rights whatsoever. Since cars kill far more people than guns in America, it is only right we do this.

While your reply is somewhat tongue in cheek and funny, the real system in Ontario for driver's licensing isn't too far off.

Graduated Licensing for Automobile Drivers
Class G1
New drivers of passenger vehicles learn to drive with six important conditions with a G1 licence. A new driver must hold a G1 licence for a minimum of 12 months before attempting the G1 road test. This time can be reduced to eight months if you successfully complete an approved driver education course. Drivers earn more privileges after passing their G1 road test.

As a G1 driver, you are required to:

maintain a zero blood alcohol level while driving;
be accompanied by a fully licensed driver, who has at least four years driving experience, and a blood alcohol level of less than .05 per cent, in case he/she needs to take over the wheel;
ensure the accompanying driver is the only other person in the front seat;
ensure the number of passengers in the vehicle is limited to the number of working seat belts;
refrain from driving on Ontario's "400-series" highways or on high speed expressways such as the Queen Elizabeth Way, Don Valley Parkway, Gardiner Expressway, E.C. Row Expressway and the Conestoga Parkway;
refrain from driving between midnight and 5:00 a.m.
Note: If your accompanying driver is a driving instructor licensed in Ontario, you may drive on any road.

See also: Ministry-Approved Beginner Driver Education Courses

Class G2
New drivers must hold a G2 licence for a minimum of 12 months before they can attempt the G2 road test. At this level, you have more privileges because of your driving experience. You may drive without an accompanying driver on all Ontario roads anytime. However, you are still required to:

maintain a zero blood alcohol level while driving;
ensure the number of passengers in the vehicle is limited to the number of working seat belts.

Link

 

[Luke T.]

Re: Re: Re: A solution to the "well-regulated militia" question?

I would most certainly agree that a heck of a lot more training needs to be given to drivers. Sounds like a good plan Luke!

And then there's the computer hacker problem. So all potential computer owners should first be issued a 4 function calculator...

 

[shanek]

Many of the pro-gun people emphasize solely the latter phrase

This implies that we ignore the first phrase. We don't. The phrase "well-regulated militia" is taken straight from the Articles of Confederation, which describes such a militia as one that is "sufficiently armed and accoutered." I don't know how many times I have to point this out before people start listening.

Basically, my plan calls for every gun owner to be compelled to first own a single-shot .22 target rifle. The owner would not be allowed to keep the rifle at home for the first six months but rather it would be stored safely at an authrorised rifle club. During this 6 month period the prospective owner would be taught marksmanship and saftey for a set fee. During this period a set number of shoots must be attended and completed to a satisfactory standard. Basic militia training should be given during this phase also.

Where in Article I Section 8 does the Constitution give the Federal government to make such a requirement of someone wanting to own firearms?

 

[Tmy]

Who gives a crap about the milita. THe 2nd amendment is not some ancient document handed down to Moses by the almighty. It was written a couple hundred years ago by leaders, and its been alive and kicking since. Its nothing new and its been litigated a bunch of times. Even if the wording is outdated, the spirit of the 2nd has continued. To sum it up. "Americans can own guns."

 

[shanek]

At the moment I think you will agree that there is no militia let a alone a well-regulated one.

The "militia" is simply the "armed body of the people" under the definition our founders used.

 

[shanek]

Re: Re: Re: A solution to the "well-regulated militia" question?

I would most certainly agree that a heck of a lot more training needs to be given to drivers. Sounds like a good plan Luke!

Oh, nice going, Luke! You went and gave him ideas!

 

[shanek]

Re: Re: Re: Re: A solution to the "well-regulated militia" question?

And then there's the computer hacker problem. So all potential computer owners should first be issued a 4 function calculator...

What, you're just skipping slide-rules? How irresponsible!

 

[Skeptical Greg]

My plan calls for every bathtub owner to be compelled to first own a small bucket. The owner would not be allowed to keep the small bucket at home for the first six months but rather it would be safely stored at an authorized home improvement center. During this six month period, the prospective owner would be taught soap handling and floor mopping for a set fee. During this period a set of safe bathing practices must be accomplished to a satisfactory standard. Basic ear washing rules should be given during this period also.

After the 6 month probationary period, the successful candidate would be awarded the small bucket and a certificate of achievement along with ownership of the small bucket and the right to own a limited range of full sized bath tubs similar to what is now permitted. Because the more bath tubs you own, the more likely you are to slip and fall and fracture your skull.

Bath tub owners should be required to attend further courses on an bi/annual basis as part of bathing, with some similarity to a San Francisco bath house but a bit less intense.

Bathing is not a right, but a privilege, so there would be no infringement of rights whatsoever. Since bathing accidents kill far more people than guns in America, it is only right we do this.



( apologies to LukeT for sort of stealing his stuff )

 

[Thanz]

Bathing is not a right, but a privilege, so there would be no infringement of rights whatsoever.

You're single, right? This attitude may be why...

Since bathing accidents kill far more people than guns in America, it is only right we do this.

I find this hard to believe. Perhaps accidental deaths, but all gun deaths? Got a source?

 

[Jon_in_london]

To sum it up. "Americans can own guns."

Or rather "Americans can own arms"

So is it your opinion that 13 year olds should be able to buy grenades at 3am from the local 24hr convinicence store?

 

[crimresearch]

Tmy, the issue is to get together a "well regulated militia". At the moment I think you will agree that there is no militia let a alone a well-regulated one. My idea means gun ownership conditional upon the participation in such a militia.

Of course, all you have to do is ignore the exact wording of the US Constitution, and US code Title 10 and 32, and the laws in each state, and court rulings, to come to that remarkable conclusion...then you can proceed at your leisure to build whatever fantasy suits you.

 

[Tmy]

Or rather "Americans can own arms"

So is it your opinion that 13 year olds should be able to buy grenades at 3am from the local 24hr convinicence store?

Why no. But all our rights have practicle limitations when it comes to public safety. We have "Freedom of Speech" but that doenst mean you can have a 5000 person rally outside the old folks home at 3:00am.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

I find this hard to believe. Perhaps accidental deaths, but all gun deaths? Got a source?

Aren't the accidents enough?

http://idea.ap.buffalo.edu/publications/Bathing for Older People.htm

The National Safety Council reported that 345 people of all ages died in bathtubs in 1989, 364 in 1988, and 348 in 1987. Bathtub related deaths during the three-year period exceeded those due to handgun accidents, all forms of road vehicles accidents (excluding motor vehicles), ladders and scaffolding falls, and ignition of clothing.

Once we get guns, golf carts and bath tubs under control, we're going after ladders and scaffoldings.

 

[TragicMonkey]

So is it your opinion that 13 year olds should be able to buy grenades at 3am from the local 24hr convinicence store?

Certainly not! The markup at convenience stores is ungodly. I'd prefer the 13 year old to purchase his grenades sensibly, in bulk, from a wholesaler. Not online, either, because you can't inspect the goods for quality beforehand. Children must learn to be sensible consumers, particularly with important weapons purchases.

Besides, the only 13 year old in a convenience store at 3 a.m. is most likely armed already, and there to rob the place.