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A Skeptical Look At James Randi By Michael Prescott

Jonquill

Critical Thinker
Joined
Jun 29, 2008
Messages
392
Hi Everybody, as you can see I am new here.

I've been hanging out at the paranormal section of Yahoo Answers where as usual the skeptics are supporting the Randi challenge and the Believers are saying it is rubbish.

Anyway someone posted a link to Michael Prescott and the article he has written 'A Skeptical Look At James Randi' which is basically saying that the book Randi wrote 'Flim-Flam' is full of errors.

As this is my first post it won't let me post the url but it is easy to find with google.

Is Michael Prescott right? Or can I argue that he doesn't know what he is talking about?

Thanks.
 
In among the ad homs, expressions of opinion and anecdote from various people, Prescott is probably right in his criticisms of Randi.

Who can tell and who cares?

On a quick look, the one and only bit of information that is reliable and can be independently confirmed in the entire article seems to be:

Targ and Puthoff's article "Information Transmission under Conditions of Sensory Shielding," which appeared in the October 18, 1974, issue of the respected journal Nature,


Who gives a stuff about any of the protagonists "scientific credentials"? Totally irrelevant.

Lots of fancy rhetoric but where is the reliable evidence for Targ & Puthoff's claims?

Tip: Don't waste time looking.

.
 
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Prescott also has a link to Randi's reply to his article. I'm assuming it is an accurate reproduction as he stated:

In a message dated September 24, 2003, James Randi responds:
Briefly....


I set out here to rebut the accusation by Michael Prescott, at http://michaelprescott.freeservers.com/FlimFlam.htm. I spent some two hours gathering the material, made brief notes, and then realized that I was wasting far too much time picking off fleas. Here are the notes I prepared:
Referring to the Prescott document: No, I did not specify the scientific credentials of Targ and Puthoff. They were laser scientists, which does not serve as any validation of their scientific – or other – ability to witness these matters.

When I contacted Dr. Arthur F. Hebard originally, he was unaware of most other work that was being done in parapsychology, until I informed him. He became "interested in parapsychology" as a result of the fiasco he saw presented by Targ and Puthoff.

Just today (September 24, 2003), he told me, "As far as my experience was concerned [with the Swann matter] there was no effect produced by him that could not be explained by ordinary means." He recalls the event well, and he also recalls that he told Scott Rogo that when they simply held a hand over the helium vent of the machine, the same effect was produced that Swann showed – and – that any use of the helium source by another facility in the building, produced the same effect! "There were unusual excursions of the data recorder," he told me – again! – "but nothing that did not have ordinary explanations." Note that Rogo did NOT report this! Hebard says that Rogo had "selective memory" of their discussion, and tried to get him to say things that Hebard just did not hold as opinions.

Hebard also repeated to me that he agrees with everything I wrote about the matter in Flim-Flam. And he denies that he ever made the "signed statement" that Rogo says he made.

Prescott says I "never set foot inside the SRI facility"? Look at Flim-Flam, pages 140-141 and see the drawings I made at SRI with Leon Otis. And I have a photograph of myself looking through the same "peep-hole" that Geller used. It was taken by Leon. I spent an entire afternoon there.
The "scientist who was there," as quoted by Prescott, was Leon Otis.

At this point, I have no time to pursue this tirade by Prescott, further. The rest of it would collapse, as above, under my point-for-point rebuttal.

In closing, I quote Prescott: "There is no way for me to verify Puthoff's statement that he tape-recorded Randi's concession of defeat 'on all the points.'" Oh yes there is, Prescott. Contact Puthoff and ask for a copy of that tape-recording. Hal Puthoff is still alive, and he's a liar. No such conversation ever took place, I did not make such a statement, and Puthoff has no evidence to support his outright lie, because there is none.
James Randi
 
Randi quoting from the blauregen link:

"A fool can ask more questions in one hour than seven wise men can answer in seven years."

:D :D


.
 
Thanks for the answers and for putting the links up.

More or less one person's word against the other's then.

I've got a bit side tracked reading the rest of that skepticalinvestigations site, they seem very skeptical about skeptics!
 
More or less one person's word against the other's then.

Not quite, as quoted above, if James Randi is right, some of the Prescott allegation are easily proven false, or randi proved false. So it ain't fully the word of somebody against another person's word.

I've got a bit side tracked reading the rest of that skepticalinvestigations site, they seem very skeptical about skeptics!

IIRC The only thing they are skeptical of, are the skeptic themselves. If I remember them well, they are not skeptical of much anything else.
 
I actually used that article in a paper I decided to make about Randi's career in English Comp 2. I thought the argument Prescott presented was full of holes
 
I've got a bit side tracked reading the rest of that skepticalinvestigations site, they seem very skeptical about skeptics!

A classic tactic of believers and deniers is to claim that they are the real skeptics or that they are skeptical of skepticism or variations thereof.
 
Okay Aepervius, you are right - but not easily proved from the comfort of my computer chair.

I looked on wiki for Harold Puthoff, Prescott suggests that being a laser scientist gives him credibility (he did patent some lasers according to wiki) but also "Puthoff joined the Church of Scientology in the late 1960s and reached the top OT VII level by 1971.... claiming to have achieved "remote viewing" abilities."

So even men that invent lasers have some unusual ideas.
 
Critical / sceptical thinking can be a single issue operation for some people. Sceptics try to apply it across the board- I doubt anyone succeeds completely. I know a guy who is a confirmed UFOlogist, who thinks believers in ghosts are very silly. People are wierd. Robots are wired. Wierd is better, on balance.
 
THe truth is out there

If someone were really telling the truth, it seems it would be that everyone has their own truth. Further they can present evidence that supports their truth, as well as evidence that falsifies the other persons truth. I think the only truth to any of this is that we believe what want, and no one or no evidence will move us away from our beliefs.
 
If someone were really telling the truth, it seems it would be that everyone has their own truth. Further they can present evidence that supports their truth, as well as evidence that falsifies the other persons truth. I think the only truth to any of this is that we believe what want, and no one or no evidence will move us away from our beliefs.

Hi Tapman, Welcome to the JREF.
Ask around some more. You'll find people like myself who had to eat crow when they realized the facts did not support their cherished beliefs.
It happens that some people (sadly a minority) do change their minds (even in ways they don't prefer) when the facts are put on the table.
We Humans may be toast afterall, but we don't always fall jam side down.
 
Hi Everybody, as you can see I am new here.

I've been hanging out at the paranormal section of Yahoo Answers where as usual the skeptics are supporting the Randi challenge and the Believers are saying it is rubbish.

Anyway someone posted a link to Michael Prescott and the article he has written 'A Skeptical Look At James Randi' which is basically saying that the book Randi wrote 'Flim-Flam' is full of errors.

As this is my first post it won't let me post the url but it is easy to find with google.

Is Michael Prescott right? Or can I argue that he doesn't know what he is talking about?

Thanks.

You can argue that he doesn't know what he's talking about! But I will admit James does have his sarcastic moments, but don't we all. He seems to take exception to the 2 alleged scientists credentials not being given credice, well why would that matter! We have these PYSCHICS, MEDUIMS, ETC ETC all out there claiming they got PHD'S at Universities that have no record of them ever being there. He seems to fail to mention that point which is understandible since he changed sides. But yes I do believe Randi does have a bit where he looks down his nose at people. That video of him throwing papers at the guy in the audience I thought was pretty rude and something he needed to apoligize for but he didn't!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxvPJFv6X94
 
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Randi get owned a lot, and ownes others as well. Isn't this a balanced world.
 
If someone were really telling the truth, it seems it would be that everyone has their own truth. Further they can present evidence that supports their truth, as well as evidence that falsifies the other persons truth. I think the only truth to any of this is that we believe what want, and no one or no evidence will move us away from our beliefs.

I wanted to weigh in on this statement. While a person can only speak truthfully from a perspective that they truly know for themselves, it doesn't make testable truths relative. In short, what is being stated above is "the truth is relative". This line of rationale is popularly used amongst gurus when addressing the 'hang ups' of their students in grasping esoteric concepts. The following ideas that normally come after 'the truth is relative' argument are "well, it all doesn't matter anyway, does it?" and "each person has their own truth." That can be a dangerous road for the traveler to follow.

Fortunately, one of the great strengths of modern Western thinking isn't that the truth is relative at all, but verifiable through rigorous science in it's most pure faucet. The reason we do have great technological advances that eventually spread to the rest of the participating world is because of this ability to think objectively about our reality and leaving the subjective thought to the individual and religion.

No, I don't think Mr. Randi is above scrutiny and it's good to be skeptical about what even he says, which is something he advises people to do when he asks folks to do; research, reason & think. However, opinions aren't to be confused with facts - be those facts either agreed upon by repeatable experience or tested. That said, while his approach to the paranormal as a whole could be considered overly critical by some, it's been proved invaluable to exposing obvious fraud in the pay to play psychic community.

Thanks for sharing the links folks, still reading both the article and the rebuttal.
 

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