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A sincere question for any theist...

jimmygun

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I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others.

I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it...

"Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line.

Question...Who is right?

Question...Why you?

Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?"
 
jimmygun said:
I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others.

I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it...

"Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line.

Question...Who is right?

Question...Why you?

Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?"
Click to expand...

This is ridiculously easy. Because I am a Prophet and have a hotline to God. A common concept in Judaism and Islam, less popular in Christianity. Although it should be added that Islam considers Muhammad to be the last Prophet.

What if my interpretation is "Why are you so focused on the Bible, since there are other theists who don't even think about the Bible? Did the Bible touch you where your bathing suit covers?" What about that, huh? Okay, everybody, back to the circle jerk. This is why I no longer read Mr. Randi's commentaries. Too much preaching to the converted. Just because you're right doesn't mean you have to say it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over, like a boot stamping on a human face, forever.
 
jimmygun said:
I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others.

I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it...
"Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line.

how do you know for sure you will get everyone to say something different, Im not saying they will be all the same but odds are they wont all be different. And what about similar things, what if they say the same idea just in a different way?

Question...Who is right?

Question...Why you?

Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and

Actually none in the line would be right, only God would be right. (that is said in a non snotty manner btw) Also what I said a sec ago.

why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?"
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While a atheist can certainly ask good questions. I would have to go with a person whom knows God as being more valid. For example: Because if you own a horse and I do not, how can I say what a horse is like to own?. One can only discuss so much without the experience.


However, I can give you an example of your scenario. I have a good friend who is a atheist. She has another friend whom is christian, I have not met the other lady. This is not a trick I have nothing up my sleeve! Anyway I was not aware of this but the atheist was trying to catch us by asking questions from each of us, without us knowing what she was up to.

She finally admitted her plan and said that the both of us were driving her nuts. Because we agreed on everything without ever having met. Ta Da :D

In case you think she was asking dumb questions, I remember a 3 hr each way day trip being bombarded with questions amoungst other times.
 
Says Kitty Chan...

"how do you know for sure you will get everyone to say something different, Im not saying they will be all the same but odds are they wont all be different. And what about similar things, what if they say the same idea just in a different way? "

Having heard somewhere that there are in excess of 20,000 different Christian sects, denominations, whatever, you could have representatives of each lined up and ask the same questions. That way you are sure to get 11,294 plus different interpretations of the bible.

If an atheist has been through the Christian experience and ended up an atheist would you consider his/her opinions valid? One of the biggest mistakes that theists make is to assume that atheists just fall out of a tree somewhere, that they have never heard the word of God and would in an instant convert to Christianity if they only knew. It is my experience that most atheists are those that have given the word of God long and serious thought and have chosen their stance.
 
I think that theists have already decided that a significant part of their life will be based on faith and not logic. You are asking a legitimate question, jimmygun, but I think that in the absence of any convincing explanation it is very easy for the theist to pull this question out of the "pool of logic" and throw it in the "pool of faith". I have asked similar questions to theists and I have noticed that many of them tend to shift the responsibility of interpreting the X holy book to other, more "qualified" authorities, like pastors or theologians. They are sure that there IS one truth, and the fact that their logic cannot extract it with absolute certainty does not seem to bother them. Besides, this is the whole point of schools of theology: to decide on a common interpretation of various scriptures, something that the bulk of believers cannot do.
 
I asked because at first you said "Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row"

which is different than what you are saying now "you could have representatives of each" (sect).

Thus why I asked, I will get back to you

:)
 
Every sect of Christianity believes the Bible is true. It's their interpretations that differ.
 
El Greco said:
I think that theists have already decided that a significant part of their life will be based on faith and not logic. You are asking a legitimate question, jimmygun, but I think that in the absence of any convincing explanation it is very easy for the theist to pull this question out of the "pool of logic" and throw it in the "pool of faith". I have asked similar questions to theists and I have noticed that many of them tend to shift the responsibility of interpreting the X holy book to other, more "qualified" authorities, like pastors or theologians. They are sure that there IS one truth, and the fact that their logic cannot extract it with absolute certainty does not seem to bother them. Besides, this is the whole point of schools of theology: to decide on a common interpretation of various scriptures, something that the bulk of believers cannot do.
Click to expand...


Still one must plug on must'nt one.
 
jimmygun said:
I posed this question to 1inC in his "I will answer any question about the bible" thread. He has so far declined to answer that one and many many others.

I will repeat it here for any theist that may care to take a stab at it...

"Put all the people professing a belief in the bible in a row, shoulder to shoulder. Lets say you are number 11,294. The first 11,293 give me different interpretations. You give me the 11,294th interpretation of the bible. Continuing down the line I get a different interpretation from everyone in the line.

Question...Who is right?

Question...Why you?

Question...Why is your interpretation more valid than all the others and why is your interpretation more valid than that of an atheist?"
Click to expand...

Well I'm an atheist myself but I recently had this conversation with a fundie and here's his answer paraphrased.

According to him, this question is like saying "Say I ask fifty different people what 1+1 is; you say it is 2, the other 49 give various different answers. Who is right? Why you? Why is your answer more correct?"

Your question is presupposing that all interpretations of the bible are fairly arbitrary, with one much as good as another. But to the fundy, this is simply not the case. He views his interpretation as correct and all others as wrong - in fact to him, his views are not even an interpretation at all. He is simply following what the bible says directly and exactly, it is all others who twist it. It's no different than answering that you should believe his answer to 1+1 simply because it 2 IS the right answer, and your question only shows that you don't understand the topic well enough to realise it.

Now this argument is nonsense of course, but that's how the fundies see it from what I can tell.
 
Since the different beliefs in the 'truth' of religion are not predicated on demonstrable, replicable, proof in the rational sense, they operate on some sort of faith based logic.

And that means each believing individual would have to have faith that his, her's,or the group's version is the right one, even if just for the present moment.

Sort of the inverse of the willing acceptance of disbelief...
A willingness to buy into the chosen belief system provides some sort of anchor, attached to which any number of irrational concepts can seem rational.
 
crimresearch said:
Since the different beliefs in the 'truth' of religion are not predicated on demonstrable, replicable, proof in the rational sense, they operate on some sort of faith based logic.

And that means each believing individual would have to have faith that his, her's,or the group's version is the right one, even if just for the present moment.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that's not how THEY see it. They may say that whether you believe in god or not is a matter of faith, but in the detail of how you follow God's word, it's very simple. From their point of view, you read the book, you do what it says. End of story. The outsider can see that this is what everybody else says and that each interpretation is pretty much as good as the others, but to the fundie that's just like saying that there really is no correct answer to 1+1.

As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence. :con2:
 
Not every sect believes the Bible, they may use portions of it but not the whole. Wiccans, Muslims and others even use it.

If in your line of people they all believed in the whole Bible not just what they want pulled from it OR if they have another book that superscedes it.

Then what you would find is a common thread with difference of opinion on cultural things, styles of worship, end time views, different emphasis on spiritual gifts. As long as the basic creed is agreed upon (which it would if the above is true) the rest while important is not what actually matters, but something like the creed does.

Now if you want to put in those to your line that like bits and pieces of the bible, but only to add or support their own ideas then yea it would be a interesting day. May even look like a web forum. ;)
 
Seismosaurus said:
As for proof... well the fundie regards such things as "fifty people died in the bus crash but one survived" as proof of god's existence. :con2:
Click to expand...

Who said that?
 
Kitty Chan said:
Who said that?
Click to expand...

You don't pay attention to the news, do you?

Horrible tragedy occurs, 'n' people die. Survivor or family member of mangled survivor in hospital interviewed: "God was looking out for me/{insert name}."
 
Quick google for 'accident' and 'god'... there are hundreds of these stories a day. The gods must be busy.

They don't even have a positive outcome to 'prove god' for these people, come to think of it.

http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=7272
"Jokin was an affectionate person, always without problems and one who could not be sad. That is not common among sportsmen because there is a lot of pressure in a team. But he was always cheerful. I had affection for him," the director said to EFE radio. "It was perhaps good that God has preferred to take him away from me, for His own team," Moreno said.
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http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041024/REPOSITORY/410240446/1001/NEWS01
"To be alive today, I know that is not an accident," said Murenzi , who believes that if she had stayed in Rwanda, her cancer would have gone undetected. "To be alive, it is a gift from God."
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http://www.heraldstandard.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13211041&BRD=2280&PAG=461&dept_id=480247&rfi=6
Jones said his life has changed dramatically since the accident. And while the physical changes are more evident, he also is different spiritually. He said he has become more religious, believing wholeheartedly that God is responsible for his progress.

"God got so tired of hearing Jeffrey Jones that he said, 'Heal this boy. I gotta get some sleep,'" his mother said jokingly.
Click to expand...

http://www.pakistanchristianpost.com/articledetails.php?artid=207
Today, the 23rd of October 2004 a “sub-leader” followed me to Lahore where I had gone for funeral service of a relative, again invited me to “join in” Presbyterian Church of Pakistan. I declined the offer, as I feel insulted being identified with the “business minded” leadership of Presbyterian Church of Pakistan, where leaders do not retire even after crossing age limit. Here I refer the National Council of Churches of Pakistan (NCCP) and Texilla Christian Hospital. This bad “Omen” followed me on my way back to Gujranwala and I escaped a fatal accident on Motor Way, trying to avoid collision with another car that suddenly met an accident due to front tire bursting at the speed of 120 Kilo Meters an hour. My son was able to avoid a major accident yet we suffered some damage to our car. I was traveling with my son, daughter-in-law and five year old grandson. None of us was injured however the passengers of the other car sustained minor injuries. Lord God saved us all.
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http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/sports/10007306.htm
"I have thought, 'Why me,' but you try not to," Bridges said. "God has a plan for everything, I guess, so you go with it. I'm only 16, so maybe this is it.
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I liked this one....

http://www.littlefallstimes.com/articles/2004/10/25/news/news2.txt
Near the end, he claimed to have seen his late father. Strzelczyk spoke about how life revolved around God. He made a 16-foot crucifix and wore a smaller cross around his neck. "It was strange, but does finding God make somebody crazy?" Keana Strzelczyk said. "He was speaking different, but he had such clarity in his voice. His eyes were sparkling again."
Click to expand...
 
Kitty Chan said:
Not every sect believes the Bible, they may use portions of it but not the whole. Wiccans, Muslims and others even use it.

If in your line of people they all believed in the whole Bible not just what they want pulled from it OR if they have another book that superscedes it.

Then what you would find is a common thread with difference of opinion on cultural things, styles of worship, end time views, different emphasis on spiritual gifts. As long as the basic creed is agreed upon (which it would if the above is true) the rest while important is not what actually matters, but something like the creed does.

Now if you want to put in those to your line that like bits and pieces of the bible, but only to add or support their own ideas then yea it would be a interesting day. May even look like a web forum. ;)
Click to expand...

I assume that everyone picks and chooses what part of the bible they will believe in and what part is of little or no consequence. This is exactly my point. For every person who reads the bible there is a different but equal opinion of what the bible says. From the most dogmatic fundimentalist to the atheist, all (to me) are equal in their interpretation. Any further discussion of who is right and who is wrong would involve the presentation of evidence. Read my signature.
 
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