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Split Thread A second impeachment

Skeptic Ginger said:
I don't think the vote can be secret per the Constitution.
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That seems to be open to debate.

“The Senate rules regarding the conduct of an impeachment trial, including ballot secrecy, require a simple majority (though a two-thirds majority is required for conviction). Yes, a provision (Art. I, sec. 5) authorizes either chamber in general lawmaking to make public the “yeas and nays” if one-fifth of those present so desire. This provision, however, is subordinate to the specific constitutional provisions on impeachment, including that the “sole power to try impeachments” belongs to the Senate.”

Full article here:

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-h...uld-be-convicted-unanimously-by-secret-ballot
 
Fast Eddie B said:
I’m just thinking back to the first impeachment. Democrats squawked loudly about the Republicans shutting down any witness testimony.

If it’s all theater anyway, I say go for it. Put at least a few of the rioters on the stand. If they plead the Fifth, go ahead and ask the questions anyway...

“Mrs. Jones, did Donald Trump’s words or actions influence your decision to participate in the invasion of the Capitol?”

“On the advice of my attorney, I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me.”

“I understand. Allow me to play a video for you.”

Plays a video of Mrs. Jones saying she was there because she thought that’s what Trump wanted.

“Mrs. Jones, does that statement accurately reflect your state of mind at the time?”

“On the advice of my attorney, I respectfully decline to answer on the grounds that it may tend to incriminate me.”

And so on. If it’s a show trial, at least try to make it a good show.
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Yup QAnon Shaman would be eager to
 
This whole situation defies logic, but I guess that's the government (at least half of it) for you. Trump was actually impeached for the second time while still in office. There was an opportunity to perform the trial portion before his term ended, but McConnell wouldn't cooperate. There was then a vote in the Senate to address the question if a trial once the President left office was Constitutional. Putting aside the fact that the Supreme Court decides what's Constitutional, the vote resulted in a majority stating it is Constitutional. There is even precedence where an impeachment trial has been held after the impeached person has left office.
 
"“These are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is
so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away from great patriots who have been badly & unfairly
treated for so long. Go home with love & in peace. Remember this day forever!”

Extract from the Judiciary House impeachment papers. (Pdf)

The Nation will indeed remember January 6, 2021—and President Trump’s singular
responsibility for that tragedy. It is impossible to imagine the events of January 6 occurring without
President Trump creating a powder keg, striking a match, and then seeking personal advantage from
the ensuing havoc. In the words of Representative Liz Cheney, the House Republican Conference
Chair: “The President of the United States summoned this mob, assembled the mob, and lit the
flame of this attack. Everything that followed was his doing. None of this would have happened
without the President. The President could have immediately and forcefully intervened to stop the
violence. He did not.
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Here's a CNN headline:

Trump's trial set to rock Washington and echo through the ages
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Seriously? "Rock Washington"? "Echo through the ages"?


[Church Lady Voice]We really like ourselves don't we?[/Church Lady Voice]

This is the third impeachment trial most of us have lived through, and none of them have rocked Washington or echoed through the ages.

For the record I think that he should be convicted, but he won't be, barring some truly unexpected development. If all goes as expected, this trial will have very close to zero impact on anything. I doubt it will even impact CNN's ratings much.

It's a pity. He should have been thrown out of office on about January 9, but he wasn't. He should be convicted now, even if it's only symbolic, but it doesn't seem he will be. Because he has already left office, I just don't think the vast majority of the country will care enough to pay attention, much less to "echo through the ages".
 
I knew the argument was going to be "You can't do this, he's no longer the President" back when the argument was "You can't do this, he's the President!" during the first impeachment.
 
zorro99 said:
The senators are witnesses themselves. They were there when all them Trump supporters barged in, breaking windows and hitting cops on da head!
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AIUI, the issue isn't whether the Capitol was stormed, but whether President Trump's words and actions incited those actions.
 
zorro99 said:
The senators are witnesses themselves. They were there when all them Trump supporters barged in, breaking windows and hitting cops on da head!
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True.

But would not testimony by Capitol Police officers as to how and why they were unprepared, and their raw fear as they were beaten, and the injuries the sustained have at least some emotional impact? Seriously, I recall one officer was blinded, or nearly so. Get him on the stand. Similarly the National Guard officers as to who caused the delay in mobilization, and why they weren’t stationed nearby?

Or the rioters themselves, as mentioned earlier, for their interpretation as to how the President’s words affected them?

And, again, Raffensperger.

I want witnesses. News reports are just hearsay.
 
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Next block kinda blunts his criticism.

Chansley has felt discouraged by the former president because Trump didn't grant pardons to Chansley and others who participated in the insurrection where five people died. Dozens were hurt and hundreds have been arrested.
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He's not angry with Trump on philosophical grounds, its just that Trump didn't lift a finger to help him.

Of course anyone with even a passing interest in reality would have already known that would be the outcome.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
True.

But would not testimony by Capitol Police officers as to how and why they were unprepared, and their raw fear as they were beaten, and the injuries the sustained have at least some emotional impact? Seriously, I recall one officer was blinded, or nearly so. Get him on the stand. Similarly the National Guard officers as to who caused the delay in mobilization, and why they weren’t stationed nearby?

Or the rioters themselves, as mentioned earlier, for their interpretation as to how the President’s words affected them?

And, again, Raffensperger.

I want witnesses. News reports are just hearsay.
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I hope there's some focus on the DOD slow-walking the gaurd activation and the memo restricting them from appropriate equipment and responses.
 
Meadmaker said:
Here's a CNN headline:

Seriously? "Rock Washington"? "Echo through the ages"?

[Church Lady Voice]We really like ourselves don't we?[/Church Lady Voice]

This is the third impeachment trial most of us have lived through, and none of them have rocked Washington or echoed through the ages.
....
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TBF, this impeachment is quite different in that an attempted coup is the named crime.
 
Fast Eddie B said:
True.

But would not testimony by Capitol Police officers as to how and why they were unprepared, and their raw fear as they were beaten, and the injuries the sustained have at least some emotional impact? Seriously, I recall one officer was blinded, or nearly so. Get him on the stand. Similarly the National Guard officers as to who caused the delay in mobilization, and why they weren’t stationed nearby?

Or the rioters themselves, as mentioned earlier, for their interpretation as to how the President’s words affected them?

And, again, Raffensperger.

I want witnesses. News reports are just hearsay.
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There is the recorded call to Raffensperger.

However, I also want witnesses and once again the Democrats have caved to GOP threats, in this case to drag the proceedings out. There just needs to be a rule that said witnesses need to be relevant and not ridiculous witnesses such as those Graham threatened to call.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
There is the recorded call to Raffensperger.

However, I also want witnesses and once again the Democrats have caved to GOP threats, in this case to drag the proceedings out. There just needs to be a rule that said witnesses need to be relevant and not ridiculous witnesses such as those Graham threatened to call.
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Which witnesses can Graham call who won't just make it all worse for Trump and the GOP?
 
Delphic Oracle said:
I hope there's some focus on the DOD slow-walking the gaurd activation and the memo restricting them from appropriate equipment and responses.
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Definitely! Maybe some of these details will be more important than witnesses.

And there is a lot of footage the news media hasn't shown such as was on the Capitol cameras.
 
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