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Split Thread A second impeachment

Norman Alexander said:
The rolling dumpster fire would then be heading over a cliff into a lake of boiling lava. Playing a piano-accordion.
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Why would you think that? From my observations, the republican senators would "circle the wagons" around him whinging, making excuses for his ramblings, building creative interpretations, and generally do everything in their power to create chaos on the floor to drown out the insane ramblings of the orange turd.
Remember how Gaetz and Co. barged into the hearing during the early impeachment claiming things were being done in secrecy even as Lindsey Graham sat there and watched?
 
They dont ever want him to be able to run again which is why they want to do this....

Pretty stupid isnt it?
 
Not that I have any confidence that it will come out well, because I have no confidence that our messed up government will ever get it right, but I can hope that T**** takes the dangerous path which he seems to be favoring, of not denying the basic charge but contending that the trial is unconstitutional. That at least adds to his discredit, and at worst, though unlikely, means that if the constitutionality is upheld he'll have little defense left.

OK, now reality.
 
Susheel said:
Why would you think that? From my observations, the republican senators would "circle the wagons" around him whinging, making excuses for his ramblings, building creative interpretations, and generally do everything in their power to create chaos on the floor to drown out the insane ramblings of the orange turd.
Remember how Gaetz and Co. barged into the hearing during the early impeachment claiming things were being done in secrecy even as Lindsey Graham sat there and watched?
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True. And it would be on prime-time TV with T**** whining on in the background with his latest self-incriminating piffle.

BTW, what are the circled wagons going to say about him in his defence? Must be the latest medication? He's tired? FAKE NOOZ! Grandpa, time for bed now! Because you can be damn sure T**** won't listen to them and won't shutup either.

So I stand by my description. :)
 
Norman Alexander said:
...BTW, what are the circled wagons going to say about him in his defence? ... :)
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Mainly whinging about how the entire thing is "unconstitutional", meany lefties are always bullying the Trump, that he is no longer the President..."Why don't you guys give the guy a break"... and so on.

I am not saying that the impeachment isn't necessary, just saying that the Dems need to have strategies in place to counter these tactics.
 
I hope Trump does testify. Of course the Repubs will try and circle the wagons but that doesn't mean the Dems can't attack BIGLY and STRONGLY with a large dash of covfefe thrown in.
 
If the Senate votes that impeachment is unconstitutional because Trump is no longer President then fine, try him in the normal courts alongside the rest of the rioters. That's the only reason he's being impeached rather than tried, right? That's what you do to a sitting President rather than try him in court? So if impeachment is no longer applicable, then normal trial is?
 
Pixel42 said:
If the Senate votes that impeachment is unconstitutional because Trump is no longer President then fine, try him in the normal courts alongside the rest of the rioters. ...
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Maybe they should begin the background work on the process immediately so that the moment if and when it is thrown out of the senate, the normal judicial process can kick in.
 
bruto said:
Not that I have any confidence that it will come out well, because I have no confidence that our messed up government will ever get it right, but I can hope that T**** takes the dangerous path which he seems to be favoring, of not denying the basic charge but contending that the trial is unconstitutional. That at least adds to his discredit, and at worst, though unlikely, means that if the constitutionality is upheld he'll have little defense left.

OK, now reality.
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All the reports I’ve read say the opposite? Apparently the first legal team quit because he wouldn’t challenge the impeachment on constitutional grounds as they advised but instead wanted to focus on election fraud.
 
Ethan Thane Athen said:
All the reports I’ve read say the opposite? Apparently the first legal team quit because he wouldn’t challenge the impeachment on constitutional grounds as they advised but instead wanted to focus on election fraud.
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Because the constitutionality question is FAR too esoteric a subject for T**** to concern himself about. It's just not about about Donny personally, so he doesn't give a ****.

But the election fraud notion is how he is trying to frame what he perceives to be a massive personal insult. Literally, the result was contrary to what he desperately wanted so badly. So it's personal. And he does give a **** about that.
 
Pixel42 said:
If the Senate votes that impeachment is unconstitutional because Trump is no longer President then fine, try him in the normal courts alongside the rest of the rioters. That's the only reason he's being impeached rather than tried, right? That's what you do to a sitting President rather than try him in court? So if impeachment is no longer applicable, then normal trial is?
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Thanks much. That is my impression as well.

If it is actually constitutionally incorrect to have a post-presidential impeachment trial, then let the Senate make a formal declaration to the fact via the current Trump impeachment trial.

And regardless of what the Senate has to say about the matter, one way or the other, then Trump should be arrested, tried, convicted and imprisoned for the riot he caused. Also, Trump should be on the hook for the millions of dollars in damages that he caused by his incitement of the riot.

By the way, I would expect that all of these legal troubles plus the numerous financial issues that Trump is now facing with his various creditors, then Trump is now in the most trouble that he ever has been.
 
Crossbow said:
Thanks much. That is my impression as well.

If it is actually constitutionally incorrect to have a post-presidential impeachment trial, then let the Senate make a formal declaration to the fact via the current Trump impeachment trial.

And regardless of what the Senate has to say about the matter, one way or the other, then Trump should be arrested, tried, convicted and imprisoned for the riot he caused. Also, Trump should be on the hook for the millions of dollars in damages that he caused by his incitement of the riot.

By the way, I would expect that all of these legal troubles plus the numerous financial issues that Trump is now facing with his various creditors, then Trump is now in the most trouble that he ever has been.
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I'm pretty sure that the GOP will do everything they can to insulate President Trump from any negative consequences. For Republican representatives, turning themselves inside-out to protect him will demonstrate their commitment to the cause and protect them from being primaried.
 
The Don said:
I'm pretty sure that the GOP will do everything they can to insulate President Trump from any negative consequences. For Republican representatives, turning themselves inside-out to protect him will demonstrate their commitment to the cause and protect them from being primaried.
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Yep. The party that spent months and years going after Hillary over "Benghazi!" and "her e-mails!" is now saying that, less than a month after Trump's little performance capping off two months of his larger performance, gosh, enough is enough, quit picking on the poor guy already, he's out of office, gee! He can't be held accountable for what he did in office because he's no longer in it, and besides that would just further divide the nation; and you can bet that any attempts to hold him accountable outside the impeachment process will also be met with "dividing the nation!"

And the reason for all this isn't just to insulate Trump from any negative consequences, it's to insulate themselves, the GOP, from any, for having elected him to the office, then largely having supported him, even if only by silence, in his insane attempts to hold on to it. Finding him guilty in any venue runs the risk of finding them guilty as well.
 
Susheel said:
Maybe they should begin the background work on the process immediately so that the moment if and when it is thrown out of the senate, the normal judicial process can kick in.
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The DC Attorney General has already said he is investigating Trump's criminal responsibility. The communications inside the White House and between Trump and Congress members will be key. If he called off rioters after getting a promise to challenge the results or if he offered that, he probably has some criminal jeopardy there.

If Trump was involved in bringing the rioters to Washington, with the intent that they disrupt Congress he may also have some issues. Conspiracy and sedition only require people you are working in concert with to commit the crimes.
 
Pixel42 said:
If the Senate votes that impeachment is unconstitutional because Trump is no longer President then fine, try him in the normal courts alongside the rest of the rioters. That's the only reason he's being impeached rather than tried, right? That's what you do to a sitting President rather than try him in court? So if impeachment is no longer applicable, then normal trial is?
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The problem is, the things a president/former president can reasonably be impeached for (and the proposed punishments) do not necessarily match up perfectly with what would be prosecutable in court (because there may not necessarily be an appropriate law).

Now if Trump shot someone on 5th Avenue? Yeah, he could be charged with murder. (Although he would have to be removed from office first.) However, doing things that (for example) violate the oath of office ("preserve/protect the constitution"), would be impeachable. But its hard to apply that to a specific law that could be prosecuted.

In other words, you can rightfully be impeached for doing a 'bad job', even though such conduct is not technically criminal.
 
Seems more and more likely that any impeachment hearing is gong to be a reverse show trial of sorts.

The jury (the Republican Senators) has already made it pretty clear they will not convict regardless of what evidence is shown.

Trump basically has a platform to spew whatever nonsense and lies he likes at this thing, there's nothing uncertain about the outcome.

I still think impeaching was the right thing for the Democrats to do here, but this is going to be really gross.
 
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