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Split Thread A second impeachment

Kevin McCarthy called Trump on Jan. 6 during the riot. We now know more about it due to notes taken my Jamie Herrera Butler (R WA) who was briefed by McCarthy on Jan 10.

KMc called Trump to get him to call off the rioters. Trump claimed they were not his people, they were Antifa. KMc said "No, they aren't Antifa, they're you people".
After that
T: "Well Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are."
KMc: "who the F do you think you're talking to?"

Herrera Butler said:

"You have to look at what he did during the insurrection to confirm where his mind was at. hat line right there demonstrates to me that either he didn't care, which is impeachable, because you cannot allow an attack on your soil, or he wanted it to happen and was OK with it, which makes me so angry...we should never stand for that for any reason under any party flag. I'm trying really hard not to say the F-word."

Another GOP Member of Congress said familiar with the phone call said:

"This proves that the President knew...very early on....what the mob was doing, and he knew members were at risk and he refused to act...it's a violation of his oath to fail to come to defense of Congress and the Constitutional process immediately. This shows tha Trump knew what the rioters were doing, that he supported it...an that he facilitated it by failing to act."

The GOP senators have got to know this. But I bet they will still acquit. Cowards. Disgusting cowards.
 
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dudalb said:
I get the feeling you just don't like the USA anyway.
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I have spent thousands of very pleasant hours in your country. I have even lived there for several short periods of time. My wife was born there. She has many relatives there. And we have American friends who are not relatives. There was a time when we were much younger that we looked into becoming permanent residents.

The past 4 years have brought all of the ugliness, violence and racism that was previously hidden in a large minority of your population out into the open. Your political system has been exposed as one that is incapable of dealing with the serious issues your country is facing. It is a bizarre political system where lying, cheating, and just plain lunacy is rewarded and where decency and reasonableness are considered to be a disadvantage.

I do not dislike the USA, although I like it somewhat less than I used to now that I am more aware of the dangerous ignorance of so many of your citizens. I feel pity and I feel sadness for what a potentially great country has become. Sometimes I cannot help but laugh at some of the absurd things that go on, both at your highest levels of government, and in the weird beliefs of politically motivated groups such as QAnon and the like. And do not think that there is any need to "pull punches" in my comments and criticism.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
Can't remember which official has stated he was on the phone with Trump and audibly remarked "they just rushed Pence out of here" on the call.

Trump can claim ignorance, but the facts say he knew instantly.
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That was Tommy Tuberville.
 
Steve said:
I have spent thousands of very pleasant hours in your country. I have even lived there for several short periods of time. My wife was born there. She has many relatives there. And we have American friends who are not relatives. There was a time when we were much younger that we looked into becoming permanent residents.

The past 4 years have brought all of the ugliness, violence and racism that was previously hidden in a large minority of your population out into the open. Your political system has been exposed as one that is incapable of dealing with the serious issues your country is facing. It is a bizarre political system where lying, cheating, and just plain lunacy is rewarded and where decency and reasonableness are considered to be a disadvantage.

I do not dislike the USA, although I like it somewhat less than I used to now that I am more aware of the dangerous ignorance of so many of your citizens. I feel pity and I feel sadness for what a potentially great country has become. Sometimes I cannot help but laugh at some of the absurd things that go on, both at your highest levels of government, and in the weird beliefs of politically motivated groups such as QAnon and the like. And do not think that there is any need to "pull punches" in my comments and criticism.
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I think if I wanted to spend the time, I could find similiar things happening in Oz.
 
Bubba said:
Before Jan 6, the FBI and Pelosi's Capitol Police chief had warnings that troublemakers were coming.
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Then so did Trump. Why did he say nothing to discourage them?


Pelosi declined Trump's advance offer of 10K National Guardsmen for protecting the Capitol.
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Untrue.


Trump said "... have a peaceful protest"
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Trump said "Stand by", "Come to D C, it'll be wild", "Fight like Hell!", "You have to be strong!". Why was he too weak to call for violence? He was right that the weak fail : look what a loser he is now. Just a nasty stain on the mattress of history.
 
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Lerxst said:
I'm tired of the BS argument that if we impeach Trump then we're setting a precedent that ANY former government official can be impeached.

This is patently false, and I don't see how anyone could make this argument. The impeachment process would still have to be followed according to the constitution, and those subject to it are still clearly defined:

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S4-1-1/ALDE_00000282/['']

https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S4-1-2-1/ALDE_00000689/['']

Additionally, and although I can't find any direct corroboration of this, since Congress essentially makes their own impeachment rules and must submit the articles of impeachment in a timely manner I don't see how that could be done retroactively as those that are making this claim want us to believe they would. Classic slippery slope.
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It's not patently false. There already is a precedent. Secretary of War William Belknap resigned his office, then was impeached and tried. The idea that this is a slippery slope is absurd. The Belknap impeachment took place 160 years ago. That was the last time.

The House and Senate are clearly not inclined to hold a rash of impeachments in the future.
 
Stacyhs said:
Kevin McCarthy called Trump on Jan. 6 during the riot. We now know more about it due to notes taken my Jamie Herrera Butler (R WA) who was briefed by McCarthy on Jan 10.

KMc called Trump to get him to call off the rioters. Trump claimed they were not his people, they were Antifa. KMc said "No, they aren't Antifa, they're you people".
After that
T: "Well Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are."
KMc: "who the F do you think you're talking to?"

Herrera Butler said:

"You have to look at what he did during the insurrection to confirm where his mind was at. hat line right there demonstrates to me that either he didn't care, which is impeachable, because you cannot allow an attack on your soil, or he wanted it to happen and was OK with it, which makes me so angry...we should never stand for that for any reason under any party flag. I'm trying really hard not to say the F-word."

Another GOP Member of Congress said familiar with the phone call said:

"This proves that the President knew...very early on....what the mob was doing, and he knew members were at risk and he refused to act...it's a violation of his oath to fail to come to defense of Congress and the Constitutional process immediately. This shows tha Trump knew what the rioters were doing, that he supported it...an that he facilitated it by failing to act."

The GOP senators have got to know this. But I bet they will still acquit. Cowards. Disgusting cowards.
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IIRC, there were contemporary news accounts of people asking Trump to intervene. In his first attempt sort of told them to keep it up, the second attempt after obviously being begged to do something wasn't much better. I think it was that third attempt where he finally told the mob to go home, calling them beautiful yada yada.
 
Stacyhs said:
Some of these questions, hell...most of them...from the GOP are just a self-serving waste of time. They aren't questions at all; they're just political grandstanding and shouldn't be allowed.
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Well, most of the GOP at this point are nothing more than a self-serving waste of time when doing anything related to their offices. Political grandstanding, paying themselves, and...what? Anything else at all?
 
Lerxst said:
I'm tired of the BS argument that if we impeach Trump then we're setting a precedent that ANY former government official can be impeached.

This is patently false, and I don't see how anyone could make this argument. The impeachment process would still have to be followed according to the constitution, and those subject to it are still clearly defined:



https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S4-1-1/ALDE_00000282/['']



https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/essay/artII-S4-1-2-1/ALDE_00000689/['']

Additionally, and although I can't find any direct corroboration of this, since Congress essentially makes their own impeachment rules and must submit the articles of impeachment in a timely manner I don't see how that could be done retroactively as those that are making this claim want us to believe they would. Classic slippery slope.
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acbytesla said:
It's not patently false. There already is a precedent. Secretary of War William Belknap resigned his office, then was impeached and tried. The idea that this is a slippery slope is absurd. The Belknap impeachment took place 160 years ago. That was the last time.

The House and Senate are clearly not inclined to hold a rash of impeachments in the future.
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I don't think that was quite the point Lerxst was getting at. I think he meant the strawman that some Republicans are putting up that the impeachment of Trump means that impeachment could be used retroactively against, say, Bush or Clinton- as purely punitive processes with no limitations at all as to when they could be brought. The impeachment process against Belknap was begun before he resigned; and, of course, the impeachment of Trump was completed before he left office, only the trial was left hanging because of GOP maneuvering to keep it that way. Neither of those examples are precedent for what the GOP is suggesting as a slippery slope- that Trump's case is some equivalent of impeaching anyone at any time.

I agree with you- the House and Senate are clearly not inclined to hold a rash of impeachments in the future. The GOP argument that Lerxst is referring to is a suggestion that, because of Trump's impeachment, they will be.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
It not that I trusted Mitch. I thought the would use this opportunity to get rid of Trump for his own evil selfish reasons. Get rid of the competition, you see. Take back the party where he is in control. But it looks like he is going to continue to allow himself to be bullied by Trump.
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I thought the same : take Trump out in one blow, consign him to history, and present a new image of the Party to the electorate (which has, of course, rejected the GOP in the House, the Senate, and the White House while it was identified with Trump).

Our mistake, I suspect, was to over-rate Moscow Mitch's political skills. He's actually at a loss and has fallen back on his default policy : do nothing except prevent anybody else doing anything. Has he ever really done anything else?
 
Steve said:
I have spent thousands of very pleasant hours in your country. I have even lived there for several short periods of time. My wife was born there. She has many relatives there. And we have American friends who are not relatives. There was a time when we were much younger that we looked into becoming permanent residents.

The past 4 years have brought all of the ugliness, violence and racism that was previously hidden in a large minority of your population out into the open. Your political system has been exposed as one that is incapable of dealing with the serious issues your country is facing. It is a bizarre political system where lying, cheating, and just plain lunacy is rewarded and where decency and reasonableness are considered to be a disadvantage.

I do not dislike the USA, although I like it somewhat less than I used to now that I am more aware of the dangerous ignorance of so many of your citizens. I feel pity and I feel sadness for what a potentially great country has become. Sometimes I cannot help but laugh at some of the absurd things that go on, both at your highest levels of government, and in the weird beliefs of politically motivated groups such as QAnon and the like. And do not think that there is any need to "pull punches" in my comments and criticism.
Click to expand...

There is much truth in what you say if we are honest with ourselves. The last four years have exposed a lot of the ugliness, ignorance and stupidity that lies within this country. But I think the same is being exposed in other countries, too. We're seeing a resurgence in antisemitism, racism, bigotry, authoritarianism, and nationalism in Europe, too. I doubt Canada has been spared entirely, either.
 
Mumbles said:
Well, most of the GOP at this point are nothing more than a self-serving waste of time when doing anything related to their offices. Political grandstanding, paying themselves, and...what? Anything else at all?
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I think a good number of them are preparing the ground for Armageddon. Saving Real Americans from God's judgement and wrath.
 
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