A question for old earth believers

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Jan 20, 2007
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I will use the same rules as in the question for evolutionst thread here.

Q: If the moon is moving away from the earth at about 3 inches a year, that would mean that 4.5 billion years ago the moon was ,if my math is correct and at this time of night I promise nothing...do it for yourself, 1.125 billion miles closer than it is now...fyi the moon is currently about 240,000 miles from earth.?.?.?
 
You should probably confine these questions to a single thread. Simply "Questions from Jesus_Freak" would do.


BTW, Good question. Watch them invent some way to weasel out of it.
 
I will use the same rules as in the question for evolutionst thread here.

Q: If the moon is moving away from the earth at about 3 inches a year, that would mean that 4.5 billion years ago the moon was ,if my math is correct and at this time of night I promise nothing...do it for yourself, 1.125 billion miles closer than it is now...fyi the moon is currently about 240,000 miles from earth.?.?.?

I am not an astronomer, but the equation you use is not linear. It does not move away at a fixed 3 inches every year, but rather it moving away that fast at the moment. It all has to do with complicated angular momentum and gravity questions, which I don't pretend to understand.

By the way, there is more evidence for an 'old earth' then there is evidence we landed on the moon, JF. Just FYI.
 
Watch them invent some way to weasel out of it.

If by "invent", you mean "do research", and by "weasel out of it", you mean "answer his question", then you are quite correct.

Aside from a multitude of hits brought up by a simple Google search that thoroughly delve into this question, a ten-second perusal of the Talk.Origins Index to Creationist Claims finds this:

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE110.html

Which gives a simple, concise explanation - as well as plenty of references to more detailed sources.

Ahh...basic research. So simple, so refreshing, so easy to help banish ignorance...
 
If by "invent", you mean "do research", and by "weasel out of it", you mean "answer his question", then you are quite correct.

Aside from a multitude of hits brought up by a simple Google search that thoroughly delve into this question, a ten-second perusal of the Talk.Origins Index to Creationist Claims finds this:

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE110.html

Which gives a simple, concise explanation - as well as plenty of references to more detailed sources.

Ahh...basic research. So simple, so refreshing, so easy to help banish ignorance...


That's not an answer. If I Google "Ghost Hunters" I get a multitude of hits from people who claim to hunt ghosts. Does this mean it's legitimate? Or even answers anything?
 
The moon is receding from the earth at about 3 inches per year. Why can't God keep the moon where it's supposed to be?
 
Q: If the moon is moving away from the earth at about 3 inches a year, that would mean that 4.5 billion years ago the moon was ,if my math is correct and at this time of night I promise nothing...do it for yourself, 1.125 billion miles closer than it is now...fyi the moon is currently about 240,000 miles from earth.?.?.?

3 inches/yr x 4,500,000,000yrs x 1 foot/12 inches x 1 mile/5280 feet = 213,068 miles! Ergo the math in your example is blatantly wrong. 1.125 billion miles - where the heck did that come from??

AND it assumes that the 3 inches amount is correct whereas the usual figures I hear are 3-4 centimetres or around 1.5 inches. I'd like to see a reference for the 3 inches figure please.

AND it assumes that the rate of recession is constant throughout the 4.5 billion year period, which other posters have already addressed.


Next.
 
That's not an answer. If I Google "Ghost Hunters" I get a multitude of hits from people who claim to hunt ghosts. Does this mean it's legitimate? Or even answers anything?

Does it answer anything? Well, that depends on your ability to analyze and understand the basics of rational academic discourse.

When you do a search for the recession rate of the moon being incompatible with an old universe, you get two main types of results:

1) Scientific answers which state: "This is why the recession rate of the moon is perfectly compatible with an old universe. Here are the applicable arguments from astronomy and physics, along with the math to demonstrate precisely how the recession rate of the moon is determined, and that it is not constant."

2) Young earth creationists whose arguments go something like this: "D00d!11!!11eleventyone!! The moon recedes from the earth at a rate of 3 centimeters per year which, if I do my math right, means that in an old universe the moon should have receded by eleventy billion miles! Obviously, those fools with their 'science' and 'book-learning' don't know anything!"

Even if you find one of those rare young-earth creationists sites which tries to sound reasonable and academic rather than reactionary, you still ultimately have two choices. Do you put more trust in:

a) A well-reasoned and researched article which clearly and concisely lays out the precise conditions which govern the movement of near-earth astronomical bodies, as well as how those conditions have historically affected the movement of the moon.

or

b) "The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it."

The same applies if you do a search for ghost hunters, or any other topic which you suspect may be bunk. Is the article you are reading clear, concise, well-researched, and written by people with genuine experience in the field? Does any scientific component of the argument properly adhere to the scientific method? Have the results of any experiment been verified? Are there alternative explanations for the phenomena in question? Does the argument put forth ask "the hard questions", or is it full of "fluff"?

This is the very essence of skepticism - the ability to question, the urge to discover, and the testicular fortitude to accept when your dearly-held beliefs are found to be incorrect.
 
Does it answer anything? Well, that depends on your ability to analyze and understand the basics of rational academic discourse.

When you do a search for the recession rate of the moon being incompatible with an old universe, you get two main types of results:

1) Scientific answers which state: "This is why the recession rate of the moon is perfectly compatible with an old universe. Here are the applicable arguments from astronomy and physics, along with the math to demonstrate precisely how the recession rate of the moon is determined, and that it is not constant."

2) Young earth creationists whose arguments go something like this: "D00d!11!!11eleventyone!! The moon recedes from the earth at a rate of 3 centimeters per year which, if I do my math right, means that in an old universe the moon should have receded by eleventy billion miles! Obviously, those fools with their 'science' and 'book-learning' don't know anything!"

Even if you find one of those rare young-earth creationists sites which tries to sound reasonable and academic rather than reactionary, you still ultimately have two choices. Do you put more trust in:

a) A well-reasoned and researched article which clearly and concisely lays out the precise conditions which govern the movement of near-earth astronomical bodies, as well as how those conditions have historically affected the movement of the moon.

or

b) "The Bible says it, I believe it, that settles it."

The same applies if you do a search for ghost hunters, or any other topic which you suspect may be bunk. Is the article you are reading clear, concise, well-researched, and written by people with genuine experience in the field? Does any scientific component of the argument properly adhere to the scientific method? Have the results of any experiment been verified? Are there alternative explanations for the phenomena in question? Does the argument put forth ask "the hard questions", or is it full of "fluff"?

This is the very essence of skepticism - the ability to question, the urge to discover, and the testicular fortitude to accept when your dearly-held beliefs are found to be incorrect.


Is it "Skepticism" you're defining here or narrow perceptions of the world? Why can't creationist websites have well thought out academic answers that don't rely on the Bible as an authority? I've seen many that do.
 
Ok, two can play at this game.

Since 1979, global temperature has risen about 0.72 degrees Fahrenheit. Using your "logic", that means that 6000 years ago, the globe must have been approximately 150 degrees cooler than it is now. That would make the hottest places on the planet about -30 degrees.

Funny that the Bible doesn't mention how cold it was everywhere.

Brilliant work, guys. Watch these skeptojerks weasel a way past this fortress of smartitude.
 

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