A question for evolutionist

[jesus_freak]

I think it is time to turn the tables here and have some of my questions answered by you.
Notice I will go one at a time instead of bombarding you with about 30 at once and when all are not answered instantly proclaiming a victory.
Q: How did humans survive before we evolved the uvula...you know that little dangly thing in our throats that prevent food from going down our breating passage and causing us to choke to death...

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

This is a very fascinating question and gets to the heart of the problem with Darwinism. There are so many aspects and features of the human body that are required for living and if they didn't exist, humans could not live. For instance how did humans get along before their teeth evolved? How did they eat before their teeth evolved allowing them to chew? They would have starved to death a long time ago.

 

[Beleth]

Actually, the uvula doesn't prevent food from going down the breathing passage. If anything, it helps prevent food from going up into the nasal cavity. Even then, people with uvula problems don't suffer from nasal regurgitation; the soft palate alone is capable of sealing off the nasal cavity during swallowing.

The primary use of the uvula is in speech. In English, the uvula is the part of the mouth which makes /b/ sound different than /m/. Other languages such as Arabic and French have actual "uvular consonants".

Since other primates also have uvulas, it is unlikely that there was ever a time where humans did not have uvulas.

 

[jesus_freak]

I disagree and so does medicinenet.com

The uvula has its own little muscle, the musculus uvuae, to help it stiffen and change shape, so it helps fill in the space at the back of the throat. It helps keep food from going down the wrong way down the breathing passage when one swallows. Singers credit the uvula with letting them produce a vibrato, a wavy up-and-down sound.
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5923

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I disagree and so does medicinenet.com

The uvula has its own little muscle, the musculus uvuae, to help it stiffen and change shape, so it helps fill in the space at the back of the throat. It helps keep food from going down the wrong way down the breathing passage when one swallows. Singers credit the uvula with letting them produce a vibrato, a wavy up-and-down sound.
http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=5923

Game-Set-Match!

 

[Taffer]

Q: How did humans survive before we evolved the uvula...you know that little dangly thing in our throats that prevent food from going down our breating passage and causing us to choke to death...

The answer to your question lies not in trying to explain the evolution of individual things, but in understanding that humans weren't around and then it went *poof*, and we have humans with uvula, etc. These things co-evolved with everything else. Things built on other things built on other things, etc, all the way down to the first organisms. As one bodily function changes, so do others as the fitness-landscape changes. Evolution is not a "*poof*" process, but a slow and gradual step-wise process of co-evolving parts.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Ummmm... excuse me... When did "evolutionists" EVER claim that humans or their primate ancestors didn't have uvulas or teeth?

 

[Beleth]

The Straight Dope, Wikipedia, and MadSci all disagree with that book-selling¹ site you linked to, JF. In fact, not a single other Web site that I looked at when googling for "uvula purpose" agrees with that one.

Besides, it's all moot since other animals have them as well.



[1] "MedicineNet.com is an online, healthcare media publishing company."

 

[noblecaboose]

Ah, the good ol' irreducible complexity argument.

Here is a pretty good refutation of this concept in general.
Here is an abstract that cites the uvula as evidence of evolution.
And that was only 5 minutes of research on the internet. I'm sure someone can do better.

However, if you are willfully ignorant about the theory of evolution (which I am not saying you are, I haven't read many of your posts though I suspect this is the case) and you want to pile up a few strawmen for a nice bonfire, there's nothing I can give you.

 

[thomps1d]

Ummmm... excuse me... When did "evolutionists" EVER claim that humans or their primate ancestors didn't have uvulas or teeth?

They haven't, of course, but lying helps creationists build their strawmen. After all, why bother going to the difficult effort of distorting your opponent's argument when you can just simply invent one for him?

 

[quixotecoyote]

I like how JF felt the need to link us definitions of food and breathing.

 

[noblecaboose]

Game-Set-Match!

That's my line. And you used it incorrectly. You're supposed to say that when someone wins an argument.

 

[Beleth]

That's my line. And you used it incorrectly. You're supposed to say that when someone wins an argument.

Well, technically, someone did win the argument, just not who Mr. Kesselberg believes won it.

 

[Apathia]

For instance how did humans get along before their teeth evolved? How did they eat before their teeth evolved allowing them to chew? They would have starved to death a long time ago.

It's time to insert the laugh track.

 

[Kahalachan]

Ah, the good ol' irreducible complexity argument.

Here is a pretty good refutation of this concept in general.
Here is an abstract that cites the uvula as evidence of evolution.
And that was only 5 minutes of research on the internet. I'm sure someone can do better.

However, if you are willfully ignorant about the theory of evolution (which I am not saying you are, I haven't read many of your posts though I suspect this is the case) and you want to pile up a few strawmen for a nice bonfire, there's nothing I can give you.

Well done.

In both of his topics we answered his questions in less than 30 minutes since the topic was posted.

You have to wonder how much "research" these Creationists are doing.

 

[Marquis de Carabas]

Q: How did humans survive before we evolved the uvula...you know that little dangly thing in our throats that prevent food from going down our breating passage and causing us to choke to death...

Other mammals seem to survive without uvulas, so why shouldn't we have?

That said, we are more prone to choking on our food in such a way than other mammals, and why is that? Language. The amount of fine breath control used in speech required a reorganisation of much of the throat and mouth from the standard issue primate structure. Pre-linguistic humans, therefore, had no more to worry about from choking than do other mammals.

As the throat and mouth evolved to better accommodate language, the risk of choking would have increased. Anything that mitigated that risk would have been positively selected for. The uvula is just such a thing, and has the added benefit of also contributing to speech itself, as Beleth noted.

 

[Beleth]

This is a very fascinating question and gets to the heart of the problem with Darwinism. There are so many aspects and features of the human body that are required for living and if they didn't exist, humans could not live. For instance how did humans get along before their teeth evolved? How did they eat before their teeth evolved allowing them to chew? They would have starved to death a long time ago.

All I can do is quote someone Mr. Kesselberg might actually listen to:

I also believe in Evolution.

 

[Dustin Kesselberg]

All I can do is quote someone Mr. Kesselberg might actually listen to:

That was before I started reading Behe's book.

 

[Beleth]

So you don't believe in evolution any more?

ETA: Have you read the criticisms of Behe's book? Or the Dover, PA evolution case where Behe testified?

 

[PixyMisa]

This is a very fascinating question and gets to the heart of the problem with Darwinism. There are so many aspects and features of the human body that are required for living and if they didn't exist, humans could not live. For instance how did humans get along before their teeth evolved? How did they eat before their teeth evolved allowing them to chew? They would have starved to death a long time ago.

Earth to Planet Dustin! Earth to Planet Dustin!

Message is: Fish have teeth. I repeat: Fish have teeth.

Message ends.

(Gotta be a troll. No one person can be this dumb.)