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A problem with the fake-apollo landings theories

DRBUZZ0

Banned
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Feb 1, 2006
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There's one thing that I think many of the Apollo-hoax people seem to forget. It would not be impossible to disprove that the program, assuming that one had sufficient resources, it's hard to imagine that the event could be staged so flawlessly that not a single hole or even a small inconsistency with science could be found.

So ask one's self. If you could go back to 1969, to investigate the landing, what sorts of things would you ideally want to have in order to disprove the landing? Here is my list:


1. An intense interest in American technical capabilities, with special attention paid to American technology in the field of rocketry and spaceflight.

2. Their own in-depth expertise and direct experience in the field of spaceflight. Ideally, they should have their own team of world-class rocket designers and engineers, with the experience necessary to immediately detect any inconsistencies in Nasa’s claims.

3. The manpower necessary to collect and analyze all the publicly available information regarding the Apollo project and Nasa’s activities in general.

4. Numerous moles and informants within American industry and government. Ideally, some of them would even have high level positions and security clearance.

5. The capability to track and monitor Nasa communications and telemetry information. An extensive system of ground and spaced-based radar and remote sensing, specifically designed to track missile launches and determine the trajectory would also be extremely helpful.

6. Direct experience with the Moon, with knowledge gained from sending unmanned probes. This would allow for even better assessment of the validity of Nasa claims. Additionally, having independently collected samples of lunar material would also come in very handy in order to compare to the analysis of the Apollo samples.

7. The ability to assess the capabilities of the Apollo spacecraft by calling Nasa’s bluff and offering to have one of their own craft rendezvous with an Apollo command module in earth orbit, thereby verifying many of the capabilities of the spacecraft.

8. (Most importantly). A strong incentive to expose any American cover-ups over something as public as the Apollo project, and make a fool out of the Capitalist West. This would be especially true if there were an unofficial “race” to the moon, which would come to symbolize the struggle between two ideologies.



If you haven’t figured out, I'm referring to the the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union had the best and the brightest minds in space at the time, and also had extensive experience with space flight.

Had any of the aspects of the Apollo landing raised a red flag or caught the attention of the Soviet space progra or seemed inconsistent or implausible, the Soviets would have had a great PR opportunity. Exposing such a hoax would have been the ultimate opportunity to show the superiority of Communism over the US system, in which the nation is forced to resort to fakery to appear technically superior.

The Soviet Union did not find the idea of a moon mission farfetched. Quite the opposite; they had their own plans for the moon, with their massive N-1 rocket, which never flew successfully. They also had their own probes, spacecraft and even small samples of lunar material from an unmanned probe. After the end of the cold war, it also became apparent that the Soviet Union had infiltrated the US government to levels which were previously unthinkable.

And yet, if you believe the Apollo Hoax crowd, they found a Hoax, where Nasa was able to fool another superpower.
 
#5 is the best on in the list. We intercepted their space-based radio communications and the monitored ours. The British monitored every signal they could get and even 'stole' the Russian pictures broadcast from the far side of the moon:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodrell_Bank#History

I have an old magazine from the 60's that shows one of the command/service modules in orbit around the moon. The picture was taken with a ground-based telescope and it appears as a streak going around the moon.

#7 on the list is a good description of the Apollo-Soyuz test program (ASTP) flights in the 70's:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASTP

Notice how the Americans brought the docking module with them, not the USSR. They did not have a capability to lift that much weight, but the Saturn 1B launch vehicle did. Don't forget that the 1B was much smaller than the Saturn V used in the actual Apollo moon missions.

#3 on the list is the reason why the Russian space shuttle looks they way it does:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buran_programhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buran_(spacecraft)

The Russians even put jet engines on their testbed vehicle, just like the one of the early concepts for the American space shuttle. Not many people knew about the jet-powered version of the American space shuttle, but the Russians seem to have figured it out somehow.
 
That's brilliant...

I should have thought of that myself...the Soviet Union had a vested interest in making the US look dumb, stupid, and foolish, and showing they had faked the moon landing would be definitive.

Superb thinking! :)
 
And yet, if you believe the Apollo Hoax crowd, they found a Hoax, where Nasa was able to fool another superpower.

Apollo conspiracy liars explain this by saying that the Soviets were let in on the hoax, thus saving them billions of rubels trying to do the same thing.

Of course this makes the conspiracy twice as big.
 
Apollo conspiracy liars explain this by saying that the Soviets were let in on the hoax, thus saving them billions of rubels trying to do the same thing.

Of course this makes the conspiracy twice as big.

Indeed, and they usually throw in the information that the US was providing Wheat shipments to the Soviets as a sort of "Hush" money for them not exposing the hoax.

Nice to be discussing something else than 9-11 once in awhile--but beware, Doc, you may attract a character from LC/BAUT named DavidC, who has proven as resistant to evidence and as dogged a poster as our friend chrisophera...:eye-poppi :eek:
 
The trouble is, the USSR spent more on their space program than we did. Here's the failed N-1 moon rocket, their equivalent of the Saturn V:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/n1.html

They had developed their own moon landing vehicle, too:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/lk.html

After it became clear that the N-1 was not going to work, these vehicles were kept secret until after the collapse of the Soviet Union. If the USSR was in on the conspiracy, why did they bother spending so much money on secret hardware?

Don't forget that the British also had the capability to monitor space communications:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodrell_Bank#History

In February 1966, Jodrell Bank tracked the USSR unmanned moon lander Luna 9 and listened in on its facsimile transmission of photographs from the moon's surface. The photos were sent to the British press and published before the Soviets themselves had made the photos public.
 
Indeed, and they usually throw in the information that the US was providing Wheat shipments to the Soviets as a sort of "Hush" money for them not exposing the hoax.

Nice to be discussing something else than 9-11 once in awhile--but beware, Doc, you may attract a character from LC/BAUT named DavidC, who has proven as resistant to evidence and as dogged a poster as our friend chrisophera...:eye-poppi :eek:

Now what? The moon has a concrete core? :eek:

I find these Apollo hoax theories laughable (as well as most CTs).
More laughable.
 
Now what? The moon has a concrete core? :eek:

I find these Apollo hoax theories laughable (as well as most CTs).
More laughable.

I love the Buzz Aldrin punch.

Here's a great idea, let's call an ex-fighter jock, hyper-competitive astronaut a coward and a liar! Even if he's 70-something what do you think his reaction will be?

A) Immediate admission that the moon landing was a hoax.
B) Handing out an autographed picture.
c) Engaging in polite discussion of the pros and cons of whether or not the moon landing was a hoax.
D) A right cross to the head.

If you picked A, B or C your deductive capabilities qualify you as a certified Conspiracy Theorist.

If you picked D, congratulations on living in the real world.
 
I recommend Gene Cernan's book "The Last Man On The Moon" for insights on the competitive nature of the Apollo astronauts. It was in their BLOOD, I tell you. If they were playing Candy Land with their three-year-old daughters, they were playing to WIN, dammit.
 
I thought about this a while back. If the US had faked the moon landing, the Russians would outed the secret. I was told that the russians were in on it. HA! Yea! just like the Russians were in on the Francis Powers/U2 shoot down. The Russians shot down one of our spy planes and they were anything but silent about.
 
Good points, Drbuzzo. Too bad Wayne Green doesn't read this forum. One of my ham radio buddies built a homemade stressed parabolic dish and was able to monitor S-band transmissions from the Command Module while it was in orbit around the moon. I'd be interested to know how NASA would have been able to fake that.
 
I love the Buzz Aldrin punch.

Here's a great idea, let's call an ex-fighter jock, hyper-competitive astronaut a coward and a liar! Even if he's 70-something what do you think his reaction will be?

A) Immediate admission that the moon landing was a hoax.
B) Handing out an autographed picture.
c) Engaging in polite discussion of the pros and cons of whether or not the moon landing was a hoax.
D) A right cross to the head.

If you picked A, B or C your deductive capabilities qualify you as a certified Conspiracy Theorist.

If you picked D, congratulations on living in the real world.

Do not tell Buzz he did not walk on the moon!

How much did that cost him!?

Dylan Avery, can we ask him to talk to Buzz?

Hey Dylan, go ask Buzz why he faked the...
 
I work for NASA.

I get the "Was the Moon Landing for real?" crap all the time from new acquaintences.

It's very tiring. I reason about it this way... If the Moon Landings were impossible, which specific piece of technology was missing? Was it the Saturn V launch vehicle? Space suits? Communications? The LEM? What did we lack to pull it off?

If the answer is nothing, as it is (and I know enough to crush anyone who claims any stage of the project was impossible), then why would we fake it? The fake would be riskier than actually doing it.

The thing I don't understand is why this "myth" is so attractive. As though people want to believe the Apollo Program was a fake. Gee, what a great fantasy.
 
I once tried this argument in an online moon-hoax discussion.
It got me nowhere. :(

The silence of the Soviet-Union was on the contrary seen as one more "smoking gun"-proof that the NWO was, at that time, controlling both sides of the Cold War!

You simply can't beat them! :)
 
i read on their blog that the loose changers saw buzz at the airport when they went to go bunk with charlie sheen for a few days, but somehow they kept their mouth shut (even though bermas is a total loony about the apollo hoax) something tells me they saw that video.
 
I'm questioning a new guy at work - an aviation psychologist.

I want him to explain to me why people can igore blatent facts, how they continuously come up with bizzare reasons for their versions being "the truth", and how best to deal with them.

His initial response was: "They're fanatics. Best to ignore them."
 
The United States was behind in the space race. They were embarrassed by Sputnik.

The US did have a real moonlanding, but it was too afraid it might fail. So, they did a fake moon landing, with a hollywood set in Nevada. They used fake photography, you can see that in the fake and missing or wrongly directed shadows of the flag on the moon.

Just look at the pictures. Look at the shadows. They don't match.
 
The United States was behind in the space race. They were embarrassed by Sputnik.

The US did have a real moonlanding, but it was too afraid it might fail. So, they did a fake moon landing, with a hollywood set in Nevada. They used fake photography, you can see that in the fake and missing or wrongly directed shadows of the flag on the moon.

Just look at the pictures. Look at the shadows. They don't match.

There are no smilies on this post, so I can't tell if it's meant to be taken seriously or not.

If it's satire, good one, you had me going!

If it's genuine, I'll back away slo-o-o-ly, making no sudden movements that might startle you.
 

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