A Palestinian peace plan Israelis can live with

[Oliver]

A view days ago, Haaretz published a quite interesting proposal for a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinian territories. Now the correspondent who wrote the piece might be a controversial figure to some people and the plan is a little bit too detailed IMHO, but after examining the proposal itself, what is your reaction to it? Is it worth to seriously think about it, and what are the plans weak points in your opinion?

Bradley Burston:
A Palestinian peace plan Israelis can live with

1. I support two-states, one Israel and one Palestine. As far as I am concerned, I can recognize Israel's "Jewish" character and Israelis should recognize Palestine's "non-Jewish" character.

2. I oppose violence of any kind from and by anyone. I reject Hamas' participation in any Palestinian government without first agreeing to surrender all arms and to accept two-states as a "final" peace agreement. But I also reject allowing Israeli settlers to carry any weapons and believe Israelis must impose the same restrictions on them.

3. I can support some settlements remaining - given the reality of 42 years of time passing - in a dunam-for-dunam land exchange. If Ariel is 500 dunams with a lifeline from Israel, then Israel gives Palestine 500 dunams in exchange.

4. Jerusalem should be a shared city and Palestinians should have an official presence in East Jerusalem. The Old City should be shared by both permitting open access to the city to all with a joint Palestinian-Israeli police presence.

5. Palestinian refugees would give up their demand to return to pre-1948 homes and lands lost during the conflict with Israel. Instead, some could apply for family reunification through Israel and the remainder would be compensated through a fund created and maintained by the United States, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia and the United Nations.

6. I also think Israelis should find it in their hearts to show compassion and offer their apologies to Palestinians for the conflict.

7. I support creation of a similar fund to compensate those Jews from Arab lands who lost their homes and lands, too, when they fled.

8. I think the Wall should be torn down, or relocated to the new borders. I have no problem separating the two nations for a short duration to help rebuild confidence between our two people.

9. All political parties, Palestinian and Israelis, should eliminate languages denying each other's ... *snip*

Full source: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1130354.html

 

[The Fool]

A view days ago, Haaretz published a quite interesting proposal for a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinian territories. Now the correspondent who wrote the piece might be a controversial figure to some people and the plan is a little bit too detailed IMHO, but after examining the proposal itself, what is your reaction to it? Is it worth to seriously think about it, and what are the plans weak points in your opinion?

well from a breif reading i would say the two things i see as the most likely to cause it to be a non starter would be the requirement for Hamas to be disarmed before participating in government and settlers to be disarmed....Also the "jerusalem should be a shared city" which I think would be a serious non starter for Israel.

 

[Oliver]

well from a breif reading i would say the two things i see as the most likely to cause it to be a non starter would be the requirement for Hamas to be disarmed before participating in government and settlers to be disarmed....Also the "jerusalem should be a shared city" which I think would be a serious non starter for Israel.

Mhmm, the disarmament surely might be a tricky issue in light of Israels overwhelmingly potent arsenal, but I have no idea how a 2-state solution could work without the shared city of Jerusalem given it's religious relevance to both sides.

 

[Thunder]

"what?? some Jews should not be allowed to live in the West Bank?

thats racism!!! racism I tell ya!! its the Nazis all over again!!! why should even one-square inch of the West Bank be Judenrein????"

 

[Oliver]

"what?? some Jews should not be allowed to live in the West Bank?

thats racism!!! racism I tell ya!! its the Nazis all over again!!! why should even one-square inch of the West Bank be Judenrein????"

 

[Thunder]

i was paraphasing the beliefs of typical right-wing Jewish/Israelis.

 

[Oliver]

i was paraphasing the beliefs of typical right-wing Jewish/Israelis.

Oh, I understand. But what do you think about the pretty balanced proposal yourself?

 

[Thunder]

Oh, I understand. But what do you think about the pretty balanced proposal yourself?

i have no problem with Israel keeping 5% of the West Bank, in exchange for 5% of israel going to the Palestinians. Israel should keep the Jewish areas of East Jerusalem and the Palestinians get the Arab areas. a special regime should rule the walled city. israel should allow back 100,000 refugees and an international compensation fund set up for the rest.

this is the basic Geneva Accords.

 

[Oliver]

i have no problem with Israel keeping 5% of the West Bank, in exchange for 5% of israel going to the Palestinians. Israel should keep the Jewish areas of East Jerusalem and the Palestinians get the Arab areas. a special regime should rule the walled city. israel should allow back 100,000 refugees and an international compensation fund set up for the rest.

this is the basic Geneva Accords.

What would a "special regime in Jerusalem" look like? I personally wouldn't mind if Jerusalem would be the Capital for both countries/Governments.

 

[Thunder]

What would a "special regime in Jerusalem" look like? I personally wouldn't mind if Jerusalem would be the Capital for both countries/Governments.

#1. i am not aware of any buildings or offices in the Old City being used as part of the capital governmental structure of Israel.

#2. as first proposed in 1947, the Old City could become a special regime, with a council with members of all three religions making decisions. there could be a rotating leadership of the council every 4 years, with each religion having a turn.

the Old City is a very special place, and deserves to be put above politics.

 

[Darth Rotor]

A view days ago, Haaretz published a quite interesting proposal for a peace deal between Israel and the Palestinian territories. Now the correspondent who wrote the piece might be a controversial figure to some people and the plan is a little bit too detailed IMHO, but after examining the proposal itself, what is your reaction to it? Is it worth to seriously think about it, and what are the plans weak points in your opinion?

Interesting proposal, how many Palestinians do you think can live with it?

 

[McHrozni]

Points 2, 5, 7, 8, 11 are certainly impossible without major shifts, others likely as well.

Yay for the plan.

McHrozni

 

[Doctor Evil]

Somehow it seems to me that the term 'Palestinian peace deal' should be reserved to offers made by someone representing the Palestinian Palestinian people in some capacity.

Beside this crucial point, the outline of the deal is quite appealing. There are a couple of points I did not like, but this is minor stuff.

 

[WildCat]

Interesting proposal, how many Palestinians do you think can live with it?

I'm having a bit of trouble locating similar articles in the Palestinian media...

 

[Skeptic]

Somehow it seems to me that the term 'Palestinian peace deal' should be reserved to offers made by someone representing the Palestinian Palestinian people in some capacity.

You know something? Perhaps the opposite. Perhaps any real peace deal will only come from Palestinians NOT connected to the government which gain major support.

I said it before and I say it now: the #1 obstacle for peace is not the Palestinian people as such. It is the Palestinian leadership and its goal of the "staged plan" for Israel's destruction.

 

[NWO Sentryman]

You know something? Perhaps the opposite. Perhaps any real peace deal will only come from Palestinians NOT connected to the government which gain major support.

I said it before and I say it now: the #1 obstacle for peace is not the Palestinian people as such. It is the Palestinian leadership and its goal of the "staged plan" for Israel's destruction.

No it's israel's suppression of the palestinian people (let me quote a scholar on this, and someone who has actually been to the middle east and knows of thie situation and uses facts)

To sum it up

Quote:
MYTH: Israel discriminates against its Arab citizens.
A "myth" that, as we shall see, has been perpetuated by such disreputable institutions as Amnesty International, Minorities At Risk, Freedom House, and so on...

I suppose it depends upon what you mean by "open society". Judging by the definition, Israel is not an open society by any standard. In fact, I'd be interested in knowing precisely which definition of "open society" Bard is using here, or if this is just intended to be empty rhetoric.

Israeli authorities have lately enforcement of censorship regulations and monitored Arabic newspapers based in East Jerusalem, sometimes ordering newspapers to halt publication of stories about the intifada until the story first appeared in the Israeli media, or even closing newspapers down as in the case of the Arab publication Sawt al-Haqq Wal-Hurriya. As far as Freedom of the Press is concerned, Israel is only "partially free" (in Israel proper), tied with Benin according to Freedom House's annual rankings, and "not free" in the Occupied Territories, with less press freedom than even China or the Islamic Republic of Iran.

Israeli Arabs certainly do not have free movement even within their own country (think security wall, checkpoints, etc), and suffer severe legal ramifications if they visit neighboring countries. Furthermore, contrary to what Avalon is claiming, if you are an Israeli and your spouse is Palestinian, the law prohibits your spouse from residing in Israel.


I've mentioned before that the State of Israel makes a legal distinction between the Druze and other Israeli Arabs, so it is disingenuous to point to Druze as examples of Israeli Arab integration.

No one is expecting Israel to solve all of its social problems in 60 years. However, it and its defenders should cease using misleading rhetoric. If they claim to be "an open society" and "free from discrimination", the burden of proof is upon them to prove it - and begging that discrimination has yet to be eradicated from the US is not a legitimate excuse.

This entire link that Avalon has provided is nothing more than a pack of irrelevant statistics (such as the population statistics, which I've excised), misleading statements, and some out and out lies, such as the claim that Israel is one of the only places in the Middle East where women can vote. I think we can safely disregard it.

 

[Skeptic]

No it's israel's suppression of the palestinian people (let me quote a scholar on this, and someone who has actually been to the middle east and knows of thie situation and uses facts)

Hon, I live in the middle east. I am an Israeli. I know the facts. The Arab and Palestinian rejection of Israel's very existence -- both in the PLO and the Hamas charter, for example -- is from long before the 1967 war, or for that matter, the founding of the PLO in 1964. Only a few months ago, the "moderate" PLO general assembly re-affirmed its commitment to "fight zionism until it is eradicated".

 

[NWO Sentryman]

Hon, I live in the middle east. I am an Israeli. I know the facts. The Arab and Palestinian rejection of Israel's very existence -- both in the PLO and the Hamas charter, for example -- is from long before the 1967 war, or for that matter, the founding of the PLO in 1964. Only a few months ago, the "moderate" PLO general assembly re-affirmed its commitment to "fight zionism until it is eradicated".

well this scholar seems to know the facts (I cited the JVL and he tore it to pieces, my screenname on that debate Was Avalon1).

He sais he was a lecturer in Jerusalem for a while, and he noted the discrimination palestinians/Arabs/non-Ashkenazis suffered

 

[Thunder]

He sais he was a lecturer in Jerusalem for a while, and he noted the discrimination palestinians/Arabs/non-Ashkenazis suffered

what does the ethnic sub-group of Jews have to do with any of this?

 

[The Fool]

Hon, I live in the middle east. I am an Israeli. I know the Facts

the following sentence has been incorporated into the Oxford english dictionary as the new official definition for appeal to authority falacy.


Its my general observation from your posts that you are only interested in facts if they reinforce your preconceptions....

I live in SE Asia, I am Australian. I know the facts.