Merged A new argument pro Near Death Experiences

[MaartenVergu]

So, your eye witness testimony of this forum and your observations (eye witness) of my posts are not reliable?

 

[Slowvehicle]

So, your eye witness testimony of this forum and your observations (eye witness) of my posts are not reliable?

What a silly attempt at a misdirection!

The fact that your posts exist, and can be referenced, and used as a check of the accuracy of memory, means that reports of their content are not, in fact, "eyewitness anecdotes".

Were you to claim you had posted something, but it was no longer available, your report of that content, which could no longer be supported, would, in fact, be an "eyewitness anecdote".

Please try to understand the difference.

 

[turingtest]

So, your eye witness testimony of this forum and your observations (eye witness) of my posts are not reliable?

They're reliable evidence that you have made those posts, sure. What else did you think they would be evidence of? Your existence? Ok; but there's no real reason to doubt that anyway, and if someone really wanted to, they could go beyond just the posts for more evidence that you exist. There's a word and a concept you need to grasp, Maartenn- consilience.

 

[MaartenVergu]

Thanks for this concept. I didn't know that.

 

[turingtest]

Thanks for this concept. I didn't know that.

You're welcome. It's a useful concept; science relies on it.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Maartenn100:
Now you're back on the straight and narrow, after your attempted dodge was corrected, would you like to answer my question?

 

[MaartenVergu]

Scientists are willing to believe in multiversa, but when someone is talking about 'being an another dimension' (a near death experience), suddenly they don't believe in portals to other dimensions anymore. Because the people who were in other dimensions are no scientists. And because nature forbids scientists to go their with their intstruments.
Just believe in multiversa, and you understand this portal to another realm...

 

[Wolrab]

Who shows up in this universe?

 

[MaartenVergu]

An out of body experience (seeing from above) is 'existing in a parallel universe' f.e. Physicists who talk about parallel universes suddenly don't except the existence of it when people are talking about being in such a universe. That's not very consistent.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Scientists are willing to believe in multiversa, but when someone is talking about 'being an another dimension' (a near death experience), suddenly they don't believe in portals to other dimensions anymore. Because the people who were in other dimensions are no scientists. And because nature forbids scientists to go their with their intstruments.
Just believe in multiversa, and you understand this portal to another realm...

An out of body experience (seeing from above) is 'existing in a parallel universe' f.e. Physicists who talk about parallel universes suddenly don't except the existence of it when people are talking about being in such a universe. That's not very consistent.

Be so kind as to provide a specific, concrete, real world example of a "scientist" who "believes" that the Multiverse Theory actually describes reality, who also rejects NDE's as a description of an actual place or state of being. Straw persons need not be raised up.

Be so kind as to support your statement that "nature forbids" investigation of the experiences popularly miscalled "NDEs" (keep your eye on that "D") with "intstruments".

Be so kind as to familiarize yourself with the differences between "belief" and "knowledge".

Be so kind as to provide practical, physical. non-anecdotal, objective evidence of the existence of "portals" to "another realm" (or, for that matter, of the mere existence of your "other realm".

Be so kind as to support your claim that the experiences popularly mis-called OOBEs are evidence of "existing in a parallel universe", especially as described in any rigorous treatment of Multiverse Theory.

 

[Donn]

Physicists who talk about parallel universes suddenly don't except the existence of it when people are talking about being in such a universe. That's not very consistent.

Right, it's not consistent. No scientist talks this way, so they are being very consistent. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Scientists are willing to believe in multiversa, but when someone is talking about 'being an another dimension' (a near death experience), suddenly they don't believe in portals to other dimensions anymore. Because the people who were in other dimensions are no scientists. And because nature forbids scientists to go their with their intstruments.
Just believe in multiversa, and you understand this portal to another realm...

An out of body experience (seeing from above) is 'existing in a parallel universe' f.e. Physicists who talk about parallel universes suddenly don't except the existence of it when people are talking about being in such a universe. That's not very consistent.

More posts demonstrating you fill in the blanks with your own made up facts when you lack knowledge.

 

[MaartenVergu]

More posts demonstrating you fill in the blanks with your own made up facts when you lack knowledge.

Do you really think you can have knowledge about this? We stare in total darkness about this. We lose everything (when we die) when we get knowledge about this 'dimension' or whatever we want to call The Unknown or The Unseen. Do you think you can understand what's going on during an NDE? I can't understand it. Whatever brain we have, it's been given to us (by Nature) and it will be talken away from us (by Nature).

Skeptic Ginger, remember this: your life (and my life too) is not for eternity.

And whatever is beyond this life is hidden for our knowledge. No 'scientific' device can discover this. Scientific devices cannot go there. When we get the opportunity to meet this Light, we are defenseless and naked. No way to get knowledge when it is not been given to you. It reveals itself to us or not. That's not up to us.

We may not think that our science is holey and we are immortal with it. There are doors of knowledge which stay closed for our best tools of science.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Do you really think you can have knowledge about this? We stare in total darkness about this. We lose everything (when we die) when we get knowledge about this 'dimension' or whatever we want to call The Unknown or The Unseen. Do you think you can understand what's going on during an NDE? I can't understand it. Whatever brain we have, it's been given to us (by Nature) and it will be talken away from us (by Nature).

Skeptic Ginger, remember this: your life (and my life too) is not for eternity.

And whatever is beyond this life is hidden for our knowledge. No 'scientific' device can discover this. Scientific devices cannot go there. When you meet the light, you are defenseless and naked. No way to get knowledge when it is not been given to you. It reveals itself to you or not. That's not up to you.

Some people believe they have had NDEs and floated above their bodies able to see everything below them. If they actually had, then experiments with hidden messages one can only see from the ceiling down should have proven this was the case by now. No such case has been documented.

It's a fantasy to believe in life after death. But by all means, enjoy yourself.

 

[MaartenVergu]

I don't know.

 

[John Jones]

I don't know.

So the subject line is a lie?

 

[MaartenVergu]

Maybe there is a bigger picture then our lives here on Earth. And this possibility (of a bigger picture) must be considered too. Science is a human invention. Science is not reality. Science cannot explain consciousness (very well). In my op!nion: there is a much bigger picture of things, and we have only a little scoop.

 

[Daylightstar]

I don't know.

Clearly.

 

[Daylightstar]

Maybe there is a bigger picture then our lives here on Earth. And this possibility (of a bigger picture) must be considered too. Science is a human invention. Science is not reality. Science cannot explain consciousness (very well). In my op!nion: there is a much bigger picture of things, and we have only a little scoop.

You have a propensity for religious thinking, attempting to fill gaping holes in even your basic understanding of the natural world around you.
The most important message your written thoughts display is not so much how little you know (although they do) but how little you want to learn.

 

[steenkh]

Do you really think you can have knowledge about this?

We do not have to fill up the blanks with wishful fantasies.

Do you think you can understand what's going on during an NDE? I can't understand it.

Of course we can understand what is going on during an NDE, and this has been pointed out to you over and over in this thread. Most importantly, nothing points to NDE's having anything to do with death, and everything to do with how the brain works under stress. So far, every attempt to prove otherwise has met with failure.

And whatever is beyond this life is hidden for our knowledge.

And yet people constantly claim that they know what happens ...

No way to get knowledge when it is not been given to you. It reveals itself to us or not.

Nonsense, when we die - and we all die - we will get a genuine DE, there is no way around it.

We may not think that our science is holey and we are immortal with it.

What scientist claims that we know everything? Where did this claim of immortality come from?

There are doors of knowledge which stay closed for our best tools of science.

Sure, but that does not mean that NDE's are in any way telling us something about death.