A deal for Snowden?

babycondor said:
Snowden Nominated for Nobel Peace Prize

Link

I doubt if he 'll win it, but the irony of this is surely not lost on Obama.
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Yeah it's a real toss up between him and is buddy Vladamir! Honestly this is news? Bradley Manning, Julian Assange, yeah they are real heroes. Jeopardizing other people's lives by leaking operation secrets to the enemy, such bravery! Now that's putting your beliefs on the line folks... Snowden is paying for it right now, he could have been whacked by the Triads at any time, now the US government is harassing him daily with creepy phone calls. (he just knows it's them!). And he just had to do this in order to avoid life in prison because there was no protection or whistleblowing protections at all! lol kook

I can't wait until Snowden writes a book, then we will really get to see his intellect shine!
 
BenBurch said:
Not a derail. Just proof that a nobel peace prize nomination isn't anything at all to be proud of or not proud of. In fact the prize itself is so tainted it is an honor mostly for the money involved. But it makes good press release material.
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Lest we forget Bush & Blair in 2003/04.

In any case, that isn't how the nominees are picked, so let's leave it at that...
 
ROBERT S. LITT, General Counsel, Office of the Director of National Intelligence
Washington, wrote a letter to the NYT about this piece of **** editorial...

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/04/opinion/testimony-of-the-national-intelligence-director.html?_r=0


'I would say sort of the breaking point was seeing the director of national intelligence, James Clapper, directly lie under oath to Congress,' Mr. Snowden said.
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HA! This kid is stupid. He apparently knows jack **** about politics and intelligence. If your opinion over the testimony of this guy is what spurred you to leak all of this, you are truly an idiot, and almost certainly mistaken, making you the most immature and self-obsessed douchebag to in recent world history. He is exactly the person we see in the arstechnicha postings, hasn't changed a bit. His ranting over the confirmation of Panetta shows you how shallow he is when it comes to these things. Honestly this editorial borders on the delusional, clapper lied and the head of the NSA task forces wants to give him clemency because he's a true whistleblower? smfh, lmao

"Snowden claims he's won and that his mission is accomplished," Clapper told the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee, . "If that is so, I call on him and his accomplices to facilitate the return of the remaining stolen documents that have not yet been exposed to prevent even more danger to U.S. security."
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Now which one of them makes more sense to you?

The website also notes what seems to be the only restriction regarding who can be nominated: "A nomination for yourself will not be taken into consideration."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...nowden-is-nominated-for-the-nobel-peace-prize
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lol nominations are news?

Oh we have such a great history with these prizes! Like when Mother Teresa won, and declared the greatest threat to peace in the world today was... abortion!
 
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BenBurch said:
I am hearing rumors that he was under investigation for an unrelated matter already when he fled. I'll see if that can be fleshed out.
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Give it up already!
Nobody cares about snowdens character flaws.
Clapper said 50 terrist plots where thwarted since the implementation of the program and he meant exactly that! Since, not because of. They get paid playing World of Warcraft. Obama said he "won't scramble fighter jets to get a 20something hacker", and he didn't have to because France, Spain and Italy did it for him.

You guys keep throwing stuff at the wall, and fail to realise that *NOBODY CARES ABOUT THE WALL*
 
magellan said:
Give it up already!
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We can tell you've given up... on doing your homework because your because your belief system is so strong.... wow!
Nobody cares about snowdens character flaws.
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Oh they most certainly do! He hurt people by doing this, Steven Pinker on twitter... "Snowden, Greenwald, & Assange are self-serving, paranoid nihilists - Must-read article in The New Republic | http://bit.ly/1bazR4M" yes, we care because it's important to understand just why scumbags like this become the way they are.
Clapper
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No, you meant Gen. Keith Alexander
50 terrist plots where thwarted since the implementation of the program and he meant exactly that! Since, not because of.
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And you're sure about this?

“in which these programs contributed to our understanding, and in many cases, helped enable the disruption of terrorist plots in the U.S. and in over 20 countries throughout the world.”

Even Leahy has conceded there were benefits after reading the classified list, which no one else has read because it remains classified of course. Many people and news organizations have claimed to have debunked the strawman claim about 50 thwarted plots, but the truth is a little harder to discern about what the actual claims were and what people have actually seen. Twoofer level ********...
They get paid playing World of Warcraft.
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Evidence?
Obama said he "won't scramble fighter jets to get a 20something hacker", and he didn't have to because France, Spain and Italy did it for him.
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And you're confident you know everything about that event?http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ver-europe-minute-by-heavily-disputed-minute/
[You guys keep throwing stuff at the wall, and fail to realise that *NOBODY CARES ABOUT THE WALL*
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Actually if you'd been paying attention to the deabte instead of the biased and one-sided blogosphere you'd realize that we disagree with everything. The fact that the programs are illegal, that they are a risk to democracy, that they chill free speech, that they are ineffective or useless, everything he is claiming. And we go from there and talk about why this guy is such a **** up.

"Nobody cares about the wall" in ALL CAPS lol
 
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Joey McGee said:
And you're confident you know everything about that event?http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ver-europe-minute-by-heavily-disputed-minute/
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Give me a break! Is anyone seriously trying to imply here that this was nothing but a logistical issue (fuel* and/or mechanical problems) and you are (presumably) buying this? And you intimate that Magellan has issues with motivated reasoning?

* I would reckon that, in any event, airspace denial issues (if they indeed did occur) pretty much imply fuel issues.
Austrians say they searched the plane with Morales' permission and checked the passports of all passengers, but called this "routine."
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Try that phrasing in a different hypothetical scenario as «Austrians say they searched Air Force One with Obama's permission and checked the passports of all passengers, but called this "routine."» and see how it would play. Such a search would not have been routine even if it hadn't been a military airplane carrying a head of state.
 
cosmicaug said:
Give me a break! Is anyone seriously trying to imply here that this was nothing but a logistical issue (fuel* and/or mechanical problems) and you are (presumably) buying this?
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Maybe you didn't actually read the washington post article? They actually have the audio from the flight crew saying that "We need to land because we cannot get a correct indication of the fuel indication – we need to land," and the Austrians say that they searched the plane and checked passports but this was routine. In order for your narrative to be true, perhaps the pilots were intelligence assets and the faulty fuel readings were made up? Perhaps these audio files are manufactured? I don't know what happened any more than you do, but I do know there are competing narratives, something you don't seem willing to consider.
And you intimate that Magellan has issues with motivated reasoning?
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That is exactly what I'm implying. They stated clearly that Obama got these countries to ground the plane, a narrative that has zero evidence or support from anyone quoted anywhere.
* I would reckon that, in any event, airspace denial issues (if they indeed did occur) pretty much imply fuel issues.
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I'm sure you would invent any kind of idea that would support your belief.
Try that phrasing in a different hypothetical scenario as «Austrians say they searched Air Force One with Obama's permission and checked the passports of all passengers, but called this "routine."» and see how it would play. Such a search would not have been routine even if it hadn't been a military airplane carrying a head of state.
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No. What I would actually do is research Austrian rules and find out if such procedures are truly "routine"

Why do you place so much stock in the statements of hysterical conspiracy theorists like Morales and his compadres?

Indeed, I implied that Magellan has no evidence of their narrative, and clearly is not familiar with all aspects of the case...

LOL "the Imperialists"
 
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Joey McGee said:
We can tell you've given up... on doing your homework because your because your belief system is so strong.... wow!Oh they most certainly do! He hurt people by doing this, Steven Pinker on twitter... "Snowden, Greenwald, & Assange are self-serving, paranoid nihilists - Must-read article in The New Republic | http://bit.ly/1bazR4M" yes, we care because it's important to understand just why scumbags like this become the way they are.No, you meant Gen. Keith AlexanderAnd you're sure about this?

“in which these programs contributed to our understanding, and in many cases, helped enable the disruption of terrorist plots in the U.S. and in over 20 countries throughout the world.”

Even Leahy has conceded there were benefits after reading the classified list, which no one else has read because it remains classified of course. Many people and news organizations have claimed to have debunked the strawman claim about 50 thwarted plots, but the truth is a little harder to discern about what the actual claims were and what people have actually seen. Twoofer level ********...
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Secret evidence may be very convincing, for those who get to see it. The rest of us will just have to believe, or not.

I am amazed at how much blind faith I see in the gov't, here on this alleged skeptics' forum. It doesn't seem to matter how utterly and obviously stupid their activities may be.

Ooh, the NSA needs my cell phone records to stop terrorism... sure, that makes sense, because after all, they say it makes sense. They've even got secret evidence that proves it! And Snowden... he's a TRAITOR for telling me that I'm being spied on...
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
Secret evidence may be very convincing, for those who get to see it. The rest of us will just have to believe, or not.
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Belief doesn't even have to enter into it. It's extremely simple. Most people accept that there must be secret capabilities and secret weapons for military and intelligence operators if we want to be the safest and the strongest. The compromise we make is that we get to elect representatives that we place our trust in to monitor these programs and make challenges to them when necessary while still maintaining their secrecy. That's not believing or having blind faith, it's just the best we can do. You need to call supporters blind believers for an emotional reason, there's actually no evidence to support your claim that this is what we are doing...
I am amazed at how much blind faith I see in the gov't, here on this alleged skeptics' forum. It doesn't seem to matter how utterly and obviously stupid their activities may be.
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LOL do you not realize how much of a joke it is to use the "you're not a true skeptic because you don't support my political belief" argument? hahaha!

Ooh, the NSA needs my cell phone records to stop terrorism... sure, that makes sense, because after all, they say it makes sense. They've even got secret evidence that proves it! And Snowden... he's a TRAITOR for telling me that I'm being spied on...
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LOL! In your dreams :covereyes For the 20th time I don't think you pay much attention here...
 
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Joey McGee said:
Belief doesn't even have to enter into it. It's extremely simple. Most people accept that there must be secret capabilities and secret weapons for military and intelligence operators if we want to be the safest and the strongest. The compromise we make is that we get to elect representatives that we place our trust in to monitor these programs and make challenges to them when necessary while still maintaining their secrecy. That's not believing or having blind faith, it's just the best we can do.
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It's extremely simple, even if it were the case that most people accept this, it does not require that anything secret be accepted by virtue of being something secret.

As for the highlighted part, there's evidence that this is not happening or that, if it is happening, the supervision is quite minimal. And yes, that you believe that this is the best we can do is blind faith.
 
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cosmicaug said:
It's extremely simple, even if it were the case that most people accept this
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Who really gives a **** what most people accept? It's the way it is, it's the way the law of the land is written, if you don't like it, there is a democratic process available to change it. I don't see a coherent complaint, or a coherent replacement for it. It's literally part of the foundation of all modern constitutions when it comes to the military. Have you no awareness of how the civilian government corresponds to the military?
it does not require that anything secret be accepted by virtue of being something secret.
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:eek: :boggled: What in the hell are you talking about? Did you make an error in your post here?
As for the highlighted part, there's evidence that this is not happening or that, if it is happening, the supervision is quite minimal.
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That is your opinion. And if you were careful enough to look, you'll see that the vast majority of the changes put forth by the administration are more aimed a placating the public than actually changing what they are doing, in the end nothing really is going to be done differently other than a lot of people will be reassured after the untrue and paranoid accusations by Snowden and his idiot friends!
[And yes, that you believe that this is the best we can do is blind faith.
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Prove it by suggesting that we could do something better! What are we supposed to have, some way for every American citizen to know everything about intelligence? Perhaps not have the intelligence at all? Are you even capable of carrying on a coherent debate or are you just mad about this because it "confirms" your paranoid fears about big brother even though you don't understand the details?
 
For many, deception is more welcome than truth, since it doesn’t damage their own self-esteem.

"There are different degrees in this aversion to truth; but all may perhaps be said to have it in some degree, because it is inseparable from self-love… We hate the truth, and they hide it from us. We desire flattery, and they flatter us. We like to be deceived, and they deceive us." -- Pascal
 
babycondor said:
For many, deception is more welcome than truth, since it doesn’t damage their own self-esteem.
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Yes we're all aware that this is the conspiracy theorist's maxim
"There are different degrees in this aversion to truth; but all may perhaps be said to have it in some degree, because it is inseparable from self-love… We hate the truth, and they hide it from us. We desire flattery, and they flatter us. We like to be deceived, and they deceive us." -- Pascal
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So says the moronic Roman Catholic theologian... :rolleyes:

Yes, we're all blind to the twoof of the corruption of government and the NSA! Why don't you try proving the abuse and the harm and the tyrany instead of babbling through the words of ancient idiots like Pascal?
 
DavidJames said:
Yeah, leaking national secrets, putting people in danger then cowardly running away to Russia. A true American hero :rolleyes:
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Who exactly was put in danger?

Why do you think it's cowardly that people would try to avoid persecution?
 
What I keep hearing here is that one would have to be insane (paranoid, you might say) not to put one's trust in officers and agencies of the federal government.
 
cosmicaug said:
What I keep hearing here is that one would have to be insane (paranoid, you might say) not to put one's trust in officers and agencies of the federal government.
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I'm well aware that this is how you think, and how you translate anything that is said in support of the government and what it is doing. I am very familiar with this mindset. What I'm trying very patiently to explain to you is that this is not our position. Over and over, I explain that it is up to you to show abuse, a trampling of legal rights, or a threat to democracy. You have your terminology wrong as well, officers and agencies of the government are distinct from elected representatives. In the current system, it is our job to elect representatives to represent what we would do ourselves if we had that power, to monitor the activities of the agencies and officers, as well as other elected representatives. Because secrecy is necessary in many areas, supremely with military intelligence, sometimes we just have to focus on electing the right kinds of people that we think will act the way we would in those situations. That is the best system human beings have come up with. Do you have something better in mind? Or are you still traumatized from reading 1984 in high school and never moved on? Why is it impossible for some people to argue with anything but made up caricatures?
 
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