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a day that will live in infamy

Republicons are such drama queens.

I know.

When individual citizens are getting the short end of the stick the world is in harmony but the instant a multi-billion dollar corporation is required to do something that benefits the citizen and society it's all raining pitchforks and the end of civilization as we know it.

Teabaggers! Relax, the multi-billion dollar corporation will pull through and no one is going to force birth control down your throat.
 
I never said you did. Travis did, "Saddling a woman with an unwanted pregnancy is hardly "giving her free stuff." " So Travis is the one with the straw man then?

No. You keep trying to argue against the proposition that eliminating co-pays causes pregnancy.
 
No. You keep trying to argue against the proposition that eliminating co-pays causes pregnancy.
I don't think eliminating copays causes any change in the pregnancy rate, nor that it "saddles" women with unwanted pregnancies. Pure hyperbole in my opinion. You really think that working women would chose not to use birth control and take a chance on unwanted pregnancy because she had to pay a copay, then suddenly decide to start using birth control when the copay was free?

leftysergeant said:
No. If you encourage women to use birth control, other costs will utterly go away. Win-win situation.
Yet remarkably all the statisticians, underwriters, and accountants of the health insurance companies never figured out that they would actually save money by not charging a copay for birth control. It took Obamacare to finally show them how to be more profitable!
 
I don't think eliminating copays causes any change in the pregnancy rate, nor that it "saddles" women with unwanted pregnancies. Pure hyperbole in my opinion. You really think that working women would chose not to use birth control and take a chance on unwanted pregnancy because she had to pay a copay, then suddenly decide to start using birth control when the copay was free?
Statistics 101. Studies show women are more likely to use birth-control if there is no co-pay. Appealing to intuition in the face of facts is just stupid.
 
More completely, study that showed unwanted pregnancies are reduced with no copay for the pill vs. with copay for the pill. Women could easily opt for alternative BC methods to the pill using out of pocket or with other insurance coverages.
 
More completely, study that showed unwanted pregnancies are reduced with no copay for the pill vs. with copay for the pill. Women could easily opt for alternative BC methods to the pill using out of pocket or with other insurance coverages.
Yes, I'm sure you would like to frame the argument the way you want to frame the argument. However, it's an empirical fact that financial barriers result in increased pregnancies. That fact can't be framed away. You can spin and spin until the cows come home but at the end of the day covering the co-pays results in fewer unwanted pregnancies. Fact.

Guttmacher Institute said:
source Several studies indicate that costs play a key role in the contraceptive behavior of substantial numbers of U.S. women. A national survey from 2004 of women 18–44 who were using reversible contraception found that one-third of them would switch methods if they did not have to worry about cost; only four in 10 of those women were using a hormonal method or an IUD, and nearly half were relying on condoms. In fact, women citing cost concerns were twice as likely as other women to rely on condoms or less effective methods like withdrawal or periodic abstinence.47

Similarly, in a nationally representative survey from 2005 of private family practice physicians and obstetrician-gynecologists, two-thirds of the providers believed that at least 10% of their clients experienced difficulty paying for visits or services, including 7% of providers who believed this was the case for at least half their clients. Six in 10 of the family practice physicians and seven in 10 of the obstetrician-gynecologists believed that reducing costs for insured patients by improving coverage of contraceptive care would be very important for improving their patients’ contraceptive method use. A parallel survey of providers at publicly supported clinics found similar results, although more of them (22%) reported having at least 50% of their clients experiencing cost barriers.48

The current recession, more severe in depth and length than any in this country in decades, has provided further evidence. A 2009 study of low- and middle-income sexually active women found that 52% of them were worse off financially than the year before. Of those who were worse off, three-quarters said that they could not afford to have a baby right then. And while nearly four in 10 of those worse off reported being more careful in their contraceptive use in the current economic climate, many of the financially challenged women reported barriers to contraceptive use: 34% said they had a harder time paying for birth control, 30% had put off a gynecology or birth control visit to save money, 25% of pill users saved money through inconsistent use and 56% of those with jobs worried about having to take time off from work to visit a doctor or clinic.49

A recent study of 10,000 women in the St. Louis area provides clear evidence of the impact that removing financial barriers can have on contraceptive use. When study participants were offered the choice of any contraceptive method, including long-acting reversible methods of contraception such as the IUD and implant, at no cost, two-thirds chose long-acting methods, a level far higher than in the general population.

All of this helps explain why, according to the most recent data, rates of unintended pregnancies are far higher among poor women (112 per 1,000 women under 100% poverty in 2001) and low-income women (81 per 1,000 women at 100–199% poverty) than among higher-income women
(29 per 1,000 women at or above 200% poverty).51

Indeed, that disparity increased substantially between 1994 and 2001, as the unintended pregnancy rate declined among higher-income women but grew among poor and lower-income women.
 
It's posts like this that demonstrate how little people know about the ACA. The authors of this bill considered your argument and implemented the 80:20 medical loss ratio rule that makes it pointless for insurers to raise premiums due to covering birth control.

Also if they could rise premiums without losing customers, why do they have to wait for a cost increase to do so?
 
It's amazing how the same people who think that a $10 increase in business taxes will stifle economic growth yet insist that eliminating a $15/mo co-pay on birth control will not make a difference to anything.
 

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