'A dark fog has enveloped us' - Israel-Palestine article

[KoihimeNakamura]

Ah, poisoning the well.

 

[Aepervius]

Exactly. The militant groups will steal the aid to sell for profit, infiltrate the UN, and aid money will disappear into Swiss bank accounts.

In other words, exactly as has been happening for the last 20 years.

All I saw as contribution on the various thread can be summarized to "Palestine=Bad, Israel=good, Any solution proposed=Bad". You come out as a polarized extremist. What you would propose : killing or shifting every palestinian far away from Israel ?

 

[Skeptic]

It is bad to ignore a peaceful solution where one is available. But it is even worse to make oneself believe a peaceful solution exists where one is not available, since that merely means, in practice, surrender to the genocidal terrorist organization or nation.

Remember "peace in our time", Munich, 1938? That is what happens when you convince yourself a peaceful solution is possible when it is not. At the time, Churchill noted that peace with Hitler is impossible and those who think otherwise are deluding themselves. He was attacked more or less in the same words you use: as a "polarizer" and an "extremist" who is out to destroy any peaceful solution.

 

[Pardalis]

Most Israelis I know think Hamas wants to annihilate Israel.

I don't understand how there can be any doubt about that.

They don't have the means to do it though. This is why I think Israel should have tampered their retaliation according to the reality of the threat.

A lot of Jews over here think that too. I don't know if that's what Hamas wants: it depends what you read.

It's not just "Jews" who think that, it is a known fact to anyone. Just listen to the top Hamas leaders talk.

 

[WildCat]

I still think a deep (below the water table) ditch running the length of the Egypt-Gaza border and filled with sea water would be the best way to shut down the tunnels. The tunnels would be flooded and useless. A berm could be built on the Egypt side of the border with the excavated earth to prevent land incursions. Might be the cheapest option in the long run.

Hey, maybe they're taking my advice!

Diplomatic officials said that the effort to stop the smuggling has three parts: an international effort to choke off the smuggling routes before the arms find their way to the tunnels under the Philadelphi Corridor; more effective Egyptian efforts in fighting the smuggling at the border; the building of some type of physical barrier - a moat, trench or some kind of underground "wall" - that could be built by US or European engineers and technicians.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=2&cid=1232100172625&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

 

[gdnp]

Hey, maybe they're taking my advice!

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=2&cid=1232100172625&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

I suppose the success would depend on the local geology. If you hit bed rock at 15 feet it would be relatively easy, as this would require blasting or jackhammers for Hamas to get through, activities that could presumably be detected. If, however, you have sand, dirt, or clay down 100 feet, the situation definitely favors the smugglers. Whatever depth barrier you build must go the entire length of the border, whereas each tunnel need only go 5 feet below the depth of the wall. The cost of defense would therefore be astronomically more than cost of breaching the defense.

 

[WildCat]

I suppose the success would depend on the local geology. If you hit bed rock at 15 feet it would be relatively easy, as this would require blasting or jackhammers for Hamas to get through, activities that could presumably be detected. If, however, you have sand, dirt, or clay down 100 feet, the situation definitely favors the smugglers. Whatever depth barrier you build must go the entire length of the border, whereas each tunnel need only go 5 feet below the depth of the wall. The cost of defense would therefore be astronomically more than cost of breaching the defense.

According to this article 13 yards is just above the water table:

Now his son, who agreed to talk only if his last name was not printed, digs tunnels more than half a mile long to escape detection. Such a tunnel — about a yard square and 13 yards deep to hit the hard mud near the water table, takes six months and costs about $40,000. At the Egyptian end, the tunnel branches in numerous directions, to allow various “eyes,” or openings.

I doubt the Palestinians have the expertise or resources to tunnel much deeper than that.

A trench 80 feet deep or so should be quite an obstacle. In Rafah you could even drill deep holes in the trench every few yards to make tunneling deeper even more risky.