A critique of skepticism

nosho

Thinker
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
179
Based on my limited experiences here, I expect this thread to die a quick and mostly unremarkable death of quiet dismissal, punctuated, perhaps, by a few posts that will build on these ideas, as well as by posts laced with jabs that will have the effect of poisoning rational discussion rather than nurturing it. This might be followed by tedium, then surely by silence, so that the original point will become obscured and then lost altogether. It's going to happen. Watch. And smile.

This is intended only for the handful of individuals who might find these insights useful. This is for you, the true skeptics, those with the courage and humility to turn the intensely focused instrument of skepticism inward and know the coarse layers with which we protect the ego.

You know you you are.

---

This approach to inquiry that we call "skepticism" can be a wonderful instrument. At its core is a noble intention, namely, to try to observe reality as it is, to dispel delusion, to reach out for truth.

It seems to me that problems arise when these pure aims of skepticism are muddied with other agendas, mostly ego-driven agendas, such as to protect one's cherished point of view, or to build oneself up by focusing on someone else's perceived shortcomings.

I think these problems arise in part because we fail to understand or acknowledge that this instrument we call "skepticism" is subject to many fine adjustments. It is not a simple, monolithic thing. It's an aggregate made up of many components. We can think of these components as knobs or dials that we use to adjust our instrument of skepticism. Some of those dials include:

Pressure. This is the degree to which one believes or disbelieves. For example, many skeptics approach the notion of god with a certain measure of disbelief. But it's also possible to imagine subjects that one can approach with less overt disbelief. It's also possible to imagine subjects we might approach with a certain level of provisional belief, but to which we wish to apply skeptical criticism out of a sense of self honesty. We dial the pressure gauge up and down along a continuum that ranges from total non-acceptance to provisional disbelief, to provisional belief, to total acceptance. The midpoint along this continuum is a state of neither belief nor disbelief, a detachment with regard to belief. In some cases, it might seem impossible for us to control whether or not we believe.

Clarity. The degree to which one hopes for truth. Does one hope to reach a conclusion that supports expectations? Is there a reluctance to let go of preconceived notions? Does one's inquiry contain a hint of hostility toward the subject of inquiry? Even overt hostility? Is there an agenda? When we have an agenda, our skepticism is clouded by our own ego, and clarity is low. We can dial up the clarity of our skepticism by loosening our grip on what we hope is true, and by disengaging from ego issues and ego attacks, which appear in abundance in Randi's commentary and here in the forum.

Intensity. The degree to which one wants to subject something to scrutiny. Is the subject a belief one would rather not examine? Or something too trivial or unimportant to consider? Is our heart really in it? Some things naturally seem to demand little or no skepticism. But this is always a judgment call, and we dial the intensity of our skepticism up and down by personal choice and preference. At maximum intensity, skepticism might resemble paranoia. At minimum intensity, skepticism is watered down with credulity.

Scope. The degree to which one believes skepticism is appropriate for a given subject. We do not apply skepticism to absolutely everything. Some things we choose to accept, because they appear to be most likely credible. But this also is always a judgment call. We have to recognize that before we even begin to use our instrument of skepticism, we first make a personal judgment about whether the subject falls within the scope of what we believe constitutes an area that warrants skepticism.

Saturation. The degree to which we thoroughly explore a subject. Do we give it a light consideration and then dismiss it? Or do we look deeply, with care, with true interest? Do we respect the subject enough to exert our most honest effort? Or do we do a half-hearted job? Do we follow through? On subjects that affect our ego, we might choose to set the saturation level very low. Maybe in the past, we have told close friends that anyone who practices yoga is an idiot. So now, as we hear more about the benefits of yoga, our skepticism might be quick and curt, because we have dialed down the saturation level as a method of protecting our own ego. A low saturation setting often results in straw-man attacks.

There undoubtedly are many more dials we use to adjust our skepticism. Some are within our control, and others might not seem to be. If we do not recognize how the quality of skepticism is affected by how we choose to set these dials, then we are not using our tool of "skepticism" wisely or effectively, and the result may be the opposite of the pure aims at the core of true skepticism.

In particular, "skepticism" may become a kind of armor we use to protect our ego, and a kind of weapon we use to jab at people who seem to threaten our ego. We call what we do "skepticism," and we dress it up with some of the trappings of skeptical criticism, but the dials are set all wrong.

Like when we use the term "woo." That term is a form of pseudospeciation. It's a purely ego-driven term, and when we use it, it's a sign that our "clarity" dial is set on "low." It's a sign that we do not hope for truth as much as we hope for something else, a certain sense of standing on solid ground, a certain confidence in knowing better than others. We're in the process of building ourselves up, congratulating ourselves, putting others in their place. When we become aware that we are caught in that pattern, we should examine where the "clarity" dial is set.

The concept of god is often the spark that prompts us to set our dials all wrong. I've seen it happen. Pressure goes way up, either one way or the other. Clarity bottoms out. Saturation becomes minimal, and straw flies.

There's a simple reason for this: Any concept of god is also a concept of oneself. When we see a concept of god that appears to be an abomination, we want to reject it, because it does not reflect who we are at the core.

Hypothetically, let's pretend for a moment that there is some "thing" beyond our experiences and ideas but simultaneously at the very core of our being, some "thing" that is the very source of who we are, some "thing" that we also share in common with everybody else. But "thing" is not even the right word, because it's not a thing. Or, more precisely, it's neither a "thing" nor not a "thing." Just pretend for a moment. It's at your core. And it's at the core of everyone else. And we all share it.

Imagine that people have no idea how to talk about this "thing." Imagine that it's beyond our skills of language to describe adequately. Some people might call it "god." Others might call it self, or non-self, or nirvana, or noumenon, or love.

Imagine that this "thing" is not something that can be measured, or even defined with language. But imagine that it is in fact something that can be touched within oneself. Imagine that direct experience is possible. And imagine that authentic self-knowledge is not truly possible otherwise.

Imagine that there is evidence for this "thing," but the only way to find it is in oneself. A personal experience of this "thing" will never be scientific proof for anyone but oneself. But imagine that such an experience is, in fact, possible and real, not just imaginary.

That's the hypothesis. Now apply skepticism to it.

One problem in doing so is that if the dials of our skepticism are set inappropriately, we will never, never be able to explore for ourselves whether this "thing," whatever we call it, is real.

In particular, if the "pressure" setting on our instrument of skepticism is not set at the midpoint, at a state of neither belief nor disbelief, we may find it extremely difficult to make an honest exploration. Athiesm can be a reflection of this kind of obstacle. For some people, athiesm means the pressure dial on their tool of skepticism is set in such a way as to rob skepticism of its effectiveness.

And agnosticism, the notion that we do not have the capacity to know whether god exists, can signal that we should examine our "scope" dial or our "saturation" dial.

These two orientations, atheism and agnosticism, do not stem from skepticism. Rather, they inform our skepticism. There is the notion that rather than asking whether god exists, one should ask how best to serve god. If one cannot answer that question truthfully for oneself, the idea goes, then god indeed does not exist. This is another way of refocusing our attention, of looking deeply into oneself, to see what's really there, to find our core.

So this is my critique of skepticism. Too often, we use it as an armor around our ego, and ill-executed skepticism becomes a real hinderance along the path. This means the dials are set wrong. When we become aware of such patterns, we can turn it to our advantage, focusing our skepticism inward, on oneself.

Peace.
 
So, basically you're saying that skepticism is imperfect because humans are imperfect? i.e. Because all people have biases and other faults and failings, we cannot apply skepticism and critical thought perfectly?

Well, if that's the case, you'd be correct.

However, if you're trying to say that all skeptics have the same biases, or that all skeptics ignore the same concepts, why, then you'd be making a strawman fallacy, and would be wrong.
 
Hypothetically, let's pretend for a moment that there is some "thing" beyond our experiences and ideas but simultaneously at the very core of our being, some "thing" that is the very source of who we are, some "thing" that we also share in common with everybody else. But "thing" is not even the right word, because it's not a thing. Or, more precisely, it's neither a "thing" nor not a "thing." Just pretend for a moment. It's at your core. And it's at the core of everyone else. And we all share it.

Imagine that people have no idea how to talk about this "thing." Imagine that it's beyond our skills of language to describe adequately. Some people might call it "god." Others might call it self, or non-self, or nirvana, or noumenon, or love.

Imagine that this "thing" is not something that can be measured, or even defined with language. But imagine that it is in fact something that can be touched within oneself. Imagine that direct experience is possible. And imagine that authentic self-knowledge is not truly possible otherwise.

Imagine that there is evidence for this "thing," but the only way to find it is in oneself. A personal experience of this "thing" will never be scientific proof for anyone but oneself. But imagine that such an experience is, in fact, possible and real, not just imaginary.

As you say, if we applied skepticism indiscriminately, not everyone can be expected to discover this "thing" for themselves.

Furthermore, if not everyone is able to discover it, then not everyone is in any way influenced or affected by it. And, therefore, this "thing" merely exists for some people and not others.

I fail to see why you're getting so worked up about something that cannot be discovered by some people. If you find this "thing" (or shall I say soul/religion/god/Jeebus) in yourself and if it works for yourself, so be it. But if others are predisposed, for whatever reason, to be incompatible - why bother worrying?
 
I'm interested in the word, "pseudospeciation". I cannot see how the counterfeit evolutionary development of new species has anything to to with skepticism.
 
Hypothetically, let's pretend for a moment that there is some "thing" beyond our experiences and ideas but simultaneously at the very core of our being, some "thing" that is the very source of who we are, some "thing" that we also share in common with everybody else. But "thing" is not even the right word, because it's not a thing. Or, more precisely, it's neither a "thing" nor not a "thing." Just pretend for a moment. It's at your core. And it's at the core of everyone else. And we all share it.

Imagine that people have no idea how to talk about this "thing." Imagine that it's beyond our skills of language to describe adequately. Some people might call it "god." Others might call it self, or non-self, or nirvana, or noumenon, or love.

Imagine that this "thing" is not something that can be measured, or even defined with language. But imagine that it is in fact something that can be touched within oneself. Imagine that direct experience is possible. And imagine that authentic self-knowledge is not truly possible otherwise.

Imagine that there is evidence for this "thing," but the only way to find it is in oneself. A personal experience of this "thing" will never be scientific proof for anyone but oneself. But imagine that such an experience is, in fact, possible and real, not just imaginary.

That's the hypothesis. Now apply skepticism to it.

So.. we can't talk about the "thing", can't see it, explain it or even think about it (since we can't even define it). There's nothing to examine so there is nothing to apply skepticism to. Can you even tell me what it is you mean by "touched within oneself"?

ed
 
This approach to inquiry that we call "skepticism" can be a wonderful instrument. At its core is a noble intention, namely, to try to observe reality as it is, to dispel delusion, to reach out for truth.

...

...let's pretend... Just pretend for a moment... Imagine... Imagine... Imagine... But imagine... Imagine... And imagine... Imagine... But imagine...

Now apply skepticism to it.

One cannot apply skepticism to a proposition by first violating the principle of skepicism.
 
Replace "skepticism" with "religion" in your post.

Still poignant eh?

Humans are fallable no matter what their outlook is.
 
Hypothetically, let's pretend for a moment that there is some "thing" beyond our experiences and ideas but simultaneously at the very core of our being, some "thing" that is the very source of who we are, some "thing" that we also share in common with everybody else. But "thing" is not even the right word, because it's not a thing. Or, more precisely, it's neither a "thing" nor not a "thing." Just pretend for a moment. It's at your core. And it's at the core of everyone else. And we all share it.
So far, it has no observable characteristics, apart from "existence", which must be a different sort than anything else we can talk about...
Imagine that people have no idea how to talk about this "thing." Imagine that it's beyond our skills of language to describe adequately. Some people might call it "god." Others might call it self, or non-self, or nirvana, or noumenon, or love.
No idea how to talk about it...how did they learn the word for it? Those who teach us our language would not have had access to the kid, to be able to say "that's the thing we don't know how to talk about", nor would we be able to look in their experience to see what it is that they could not talk about.

So, not only does it have no characteristics, but it is impossible for us to have learned a label for it even imperfectly, to even be able to talk about this (no)thing that does not effect us noticeably...
Imagine that this "thing" is not something that can be measured, or even defined with language. But imagine that it is in fact something that can be touched within oneself. Imagine that direct experience is possible. And imagine that authentic self-knowledge is not truly possible otherwise.
That's a lot of imagining. I can see why, too--as you have described it, it would be indistinguishable from imagination, even to oneself. Heck, even "imagination" has enough going for it that we can talk about it--this (no)thing would, by your assumptions, be even less consistent than imagination, or indeed anything imaginable. (We shall, for the moment, ignore the internal inconsistency of your having described, for 4 paragraphs, something that is undescribable and without characteristic and beyond language.)
Imagine that there is evidence for this "thing," but the only way to find it is in oneself. A personal experience of this "thing" will never be scientific proof for anyone but oneself. But imagine that such an experience is, in fact, possible and real, not just imaginary.
Given how we learn language, a personal experience of this could not possibly be proof of it even for oneself. As I said above, it would be indistinguishable from imagination even to oneself, and impossible to corroborate with any other; there is no characteristic whatsoever, no constant, in your assumptions, that would allow us to label this (no)thing in the first place.
That's the hypothesis. Now apply skepticism to it.
Such a (no)thing would never be spoken of or noticed. It could not be. That makes it very different from any of the concepts of spirit, mind, god, love, or anything else, each of which words does have utility within our language community, even if they (some) are imaginary. We use these words, functionally, to communicate with one another. There are public referents--objects or behaviors, usually, or classes of behaviors or behaviors from which the concept is inferred as an emergent property--for even the most arcane of actually useful words. There is no such thing available for your (no)thing, so it could never be discriminated, even (again) by oneself, given the way we learn.

Could such a thing exists? I (nor you) cannot know. And it cannot (even possibly) matter, by your description.
 
From what I have come to understand, a skeptic actually believes nothing, not even when logic or reason is applied to it. Skepticism is not a condition to be overcome or rectified, or even corrected. It simply is.


http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/skepticism-ancient/
According to Sextus, the skeptic is someone who has investigated the questions of philosophy but has “suspended judgment” (practicing epochê) because he is unable to resolve the differences among the contrary attitudes, opinions and arguments he found. Instead of adhering to a definite philosophical position, the skeptic is someone who continues to investigate.

Today, few people are skeptics in this sense of the concept.

I am not one of those few. I use skepticim as a tool, and because I am still learning it, I use it poorly sometimes. But I am one of the legion of the Eternally Gullible. I'm prone to believe anything, especially if it's mixed with just enough facts to sound good. Forcing myself to suspend judgement until I have applied logic, exposed fallacies, and confirmed validity and soundness is a good thing for me. It has often kept me from being fooled by the latest thing to come down the pike.

But I'm still human, and have flaws in my judgement. I still apply emotion to certain subjects, like religion. I don't like Fundies and have made that abundantly clear, nor do I apply a clear mind to the topic in general. This is not to say I loathe and revile all religious. Not at all. I do have friends who are dedicated Christians, but we are friends because they can somehow love me anyway, and do not deign to preach at me or try to save me. They have told me they are praying for me, and that is the end of the matter between us.

And I have thanked them for doing so, even though I do think it a waste of their time and breath, because I can see the love and concern for me this action shows. That's what really matters.

Am I a good skeptic? Hardly. I am a practicing skeptic, with "practice" being the operative.
 
From what I have come to understand, a skeptic actually believes nothing, not even when logic or reason is applied to it. Skepticism is not a condition to be overcome or rectified, or even corrected. It simply is.


http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/skepticism-ancient/


Today, few people are skeptics in this sense of the concept.

I am not one of those few. I use skepticim as a tool, and because I am still learning it, I use it poorly sometimes. But I am one of the legion of the Eternally Gullible. I'm prone to believe anything, especially if it's mixed with just enough facts to sound good. Forcing myself to suspend judgement until I have applied logic, exposed fallacies, and confirmed validity and soundness is a good thing for me. It has often kept me from being fooled by the latest thing to come down the pike.

But I'm still human, and have flaws in my judgement. I still apply emotion to certain subjects, like religion. I don't like Fundies and have made that abundantly clear, nor do I apply a clear mind to the topic in general. This is not to say I loathe and revile all religious. Not at all. I do have friends who are dedicated Christians, but we are friends because they can somehow love me anyway, and do not deign to preach at me or try to save me. They have told me they are praying for me, and that is the end of the matter between us.

And I have thanked them for doing so, even though I do think it a waste of their time and breath, because I can see the love and concern for me this action shows. That's what really matters.

Am I a good skeptic? Hardly. I am a practicing skeptic, with "practice" being the operative.


"We barely have time to react in this world, let alone rehearse and I don't think that I am any better than you but I don't think that I'm worse."

-Ani DiFranco "Open Letter to a John"
 
Never spoken a stupid word.
And has never done a stupid thing.
Never thought a stupid thought.
Courageous in the face of evil.
Amazingly intelligence without being a dork.
Ravishingly georgous.
Rab C Nesbitt fan.
Orange is his favourite colour.
When people need him, he'll be there.
 
This approach to inquiry that we call "skepticism" can be a wonderful instrument.
...
It seems to me that problems arise when these pure aims of skepticism are muddied with other agendas, mostly ego-driven agendas, such as to protect one's cherished point of view, or to build oneself up by focusing on someone else's perceived shortcomings.

Hi Nosho, some great points!

The main problem I observe is a few members of organized skeptical movements and organizations riding the coat-tails of science to try and gain status from that- some even going as far as calling skepticism science.
 
Based on my limited experiences here, I expect this thread to die a quick and mostly unremarkable death of quiet dismissal, punctuated, perhaps, by a few posts that will build on these ideas, as well as by posts laced with jabs that will have the effect of poisoning rational discussion rather than nurturing it. This might be followed by tedium, then surely by silence, so that the original point will become obscured and then lost altogether. It's going to happen. Watch. And smile.
Sort of a 'poison the well' technique isn't it? Except you predicted I would post this jab, so... man you ARE good.
This is intended only for the handful of individuals who might find these insights useful. This is for you, the true skeptics, those with the courage and humility to turn the intensely focused instrument of skepticism inward and know the coarse layers with which we protect the ego.

You know you you are.
Well I wanna be one of those people so I'll shut up. To really prove you right I should just let the thread die. Oh I'm so confused.
 
When I use the word "woo"
it is short for "Woodom".
The Woodom is an actual place.
It can be a dirty old trailer
filled with boxes of used paper towels and a woodstove that doesn't work...
or a nice hotel room scattered with little colored glass pyramids and bent forks.
It is the same place.

I did not build it nor do I think I could move or destroy it.
It was here before me and will be here after I die.
The people who reside in the Woodom are just skeptical enough
to process my debit card before,
and never after
a transaction.
 
Hi Nosho, some great points!

The main problem I observe is a few members of organized skeptical movements and organizations riding the coat-tails of science to try and gain status from that- some even going as far as calling skepticism science.

Who are these people you are talking about?

Can we have names? Or do you prefer to accuse people without naming them?
 

Back
Top Bottom