A case where I would support torture.

[fishbob]

We can disagree on the first two points, but the above one is a gross simplification at best and a complete misunderstanding of the issue at worst.

OK. People who may be partially driven by revenge.
Picky picky picky.

 

[Elind]

Picky picky picky.

My point is that the "revenge" justification can readily be manufactured by those who need it from any number of arguments, and typically is. Focus on this issue of perceived maltreatment is picky.

In Iraq in particular the culture has known nothing but the concept of violence as a political tool since it's founding, and perhaps before. I'd bet you that if any "insurgents" (to be polite) were given the choice of being captured by US troops (or CIA) or their own countrymen, they would pick the former in a heartbeat.

 

[fishbob]

My point is that the "revenge" justification can readily be manufactured by those who need it from any number of arguments, and typically is. Focus on this issue of perceived maltreatment is picky.

In Iraq in particular the culture has known nothing but the concept of violence as a political tool since it's founding, and perhaps before. I'd bet you that if any "insurgents" (to be polite) were given the choice of being captured by US troops (or CIA) or their own countrymen, they would pick the former in a heartbeat.

Perceived maltreatment is closely related to this topic. The perception that the US absolute refrains from maltreatment would be quite helpful in achieving our diplomatic goals in Iraq, but that opportunity is long gone.

Saying that insurgents prefer US to Iraq capture - is only saying that it is OK for us to torture since they torture more.

 

[Freakshow]

Surely this is what makes it philosophy, rather than politics, though?

I don't agree. This is currently a very hot political issue that is frequently in the news recently. It has too much relevance to current real-world political discussions to toss it over to the Philosophy forum.

 

[Elind]

Perceived maltreatment is closely related to this topic. The perception that the US absolute refrains from maltreatment would be quite helpful in achieving our diplomatic goals in Iraq, but that opportunity is long gone.

Saying that insurgents prefer US to Iraq capture - is only saying that it is OK for us to torture since they torture more.

Here you go again; assuming we all agree what torture is, or that we all agree with your uncertain definition.

As to perceptions, you think there could ever be a time when there were not allegations of torture? How about if there are none, but instead the focus is on all the inncoent wedding parties that get blown up in the middle of the desert? You are picky in your arguments about what is a moving target.