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A Browne Fan Speaks Up

RSLancastr

www.StopSylvia.com
RSLancastr
Joined
Sep 7, 2001
Messages
17,135
Location
Salem, Oregon
I received the following email today in my StopSylvia mailbox

It contains permission to publish it, so I thought I would share it here. I have already composed a reply.

Hi,

I am a 25 year old norwegian woman, living in Norway. I have some friends with paranormal abilities, which dont want to use them, because they are afraid of what people might think. My friends mother with this ability, also has a kind of ability.

I am a preschoolteacher, have studied hairdressing, an now this autumn i will study astrology. I have read Sylvia Brown`s book, and it`s the best book i have ever read. You might wonder why, because i am also a sceptic human being (as we ALL should be offcourse). The Book is strictly a harmless book, where Sylvia is telling people around the world about her abilities. Have you read the book? I think you should do that.

Compared to religion and the effects of religious views, this paranormal and psychic ability is far greater. If you ask me. Do you really think Sylvia would have written a book if it was a lie? Dont you think she has studied and have been sceptic as well? She has been to a psyciatrist who said she was "normal, with paranormal abilities?". I am a open minded and sceptic person, but we human beings are often very fast to say "i dont believe in this" "this is ********". Open your mind, and see what`s inside. We have abilites each one of us, but if you are a non believer, dont believe in your self and your own abilities, nothing will ever happen.

Im not religious at all, but i am definitly not an ateist. I believe in us, and the other side. I believe we have a soul, and that our soul will go on after we die. Its a harmless way of thinking.

This world is a whole big industry, so yes- why shouldn`t Sylvia charge people for her sessions? And yes, i believe offcourse that she cant always be accurate at all her predictions. So yes, some people might get hurt. But no, i dont think Sylvia would hurt people on purpose.

Why dont you use your time with something else instead of making a WEBSITE to "STOP SYLVIA BROWN"?? She wont stop! Because she is WHO she IS, its like stopping a person who has schizofrenia. So yes, let her make her money, and you make your money with your job. Use your time in something meaningful. Im sorry, but i am a little bit pissed. And sad. Dont bother with her, and she wont bother you. Because it seems as if you dont believe.

If you want to you can publish this, but maybe you wont, because im not with you in your way of thinking. Allthough, every apinion should have its voice.

How old are you by the way?

Best regards,

[name[/i]
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I think that if a person writes a book, they must be telling the truth.

Why must you persecute Sylvia? ;)
 
Oh man! Now that I know that everything written in a book is real, I am going to go back and re-read "The Da Vinci Code" again. I never knew those things in there were real, or I would have paid more attention the first time I read it! :D
 
People say you can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into, but this is a perfect example of how people "reason" themselves into these things.

First, this woman really believes she has close friends with paranormal abilities. Therefore, she is set up to believe that someone like Sylvia Browne could have them, too. Second, since her friends are sincere, it is easy for her to assume that likely Sylvia Browne is too.

Third, she seems to believe, as many people do, that no one would go to all the trouble of writing a book and starting a church if it was "all a lie." That's not unreasonable; it just doesn't happen to necessarily be true.

So she believes partly on this basis, and thus she is willing to attempt to defend Browne on other issues (charging a lot, being wrong), even though she has absolutely no personal knowledge of Browne other than her book.

It's an interesting letter.

I'll be interested to read your response, if you choose to share it!
 
Okay, it's easy to make fun of the credulity, but I think it's more interesting to understand the underlying cultural phenomenon.

I see this attitude a lot. The person I'm talking to has a belief rooted in the testimony of another person, whether it's a religious experience, ghost encounter, or psychic claim. They have an emotional attachment to this person, even if they've never met. We all have some level of emotional attachment to people who's interesting ideas inspire us.

To accept that what Browne says is untrue, this person must concede that Browne, with whom she has an emotional attachment, is either lying or profoundly stupid based on testimony given to her by a stranger.

Logically, it's an easy thing to do. Emotionally, it's very difficult. Anyone here who feels themselves above that emotional level is either lying or profoundly stupid ;)

As skeptics, we may have the ability to put these emotions aside and consider the evidence, but judging from this board, even for most skeptics, far more evidence is needed to overturn emotionally reinforced views. We've got threads where one half of the conversation has a lot of trouble believing a police officer would lie without extraordinary evidence and the other half can't believe the suspect would be lying.

I'm as guilty of this as anyone. That's why I think an attitude of dismissal or a focus on failures in logic isn't a useful way to address this reluctance to abandon supernatural views.
 
...(as we ALL should be offcourse)...

I think this part says it all.
 
She sounds entirely gullible, and a bit naive (and possibly not very old and world-wise yet either). I get the strongest impression of someone who gets miffed like this because you have told her Little Pink Pony is not a real pony after all.

It might be worth asking her to just check if her friends have been leading her on with a bit of harmless fun at her expense: "Oh yeah! Sure! I can see the future! But I don't like to try it too often. It...makes me break out in pimples...yeah, that's it. <snicker>"
 
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ExMinister said:
People say you can't reason someone out of a belief they didn't reason themselves into, but this is a perfect example of how people "reason" themselves into these things.
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ExM, I hope to give a presentation at TAM8 in which I will deconstruct this skeptical "truism." One point I wish to make is that many, if not most people with "woo" beliefs did reason themselves into those beliefs. Maybe not sound reasoning, but reasoning nonetheless. Even something like "Mom and Dad said this was true, and they wouldn't lie to me" is reasoning, and becomes open to reasoned discussion, such as "maybe so, but they could be wrong, couldn't they?"

First, this woman really believes she has close friends with paranormal abilities. Therefore, she is set up to believe that someone like Sylvia Browne could have them, too. Second, since her friends are sincere, it is easy for her to assume that likely Sylvia Browne is too.

Third, she seems to believe, as many people do, that no one would go to all the trouble of writing a book and starting a church if it was "all a lie." That's not unreasonable; it just doesn't happen to necessarily be true.

So she believes partly on this basis, and thus she is willing to attempt to defend Browne on other issues (charging a lot, being wrong), even though she has absolutely no personal knowledge of Browne other than her book.

It's an interesting letter.
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Yes, and I may use it in my presentation, if I give it.

be interested to read your response, if you choose to share it!
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It's nothing surprising. We'll see.
 
RSLancastr said:
ExM, I hope to give a presentation at TAM8 in which I will deconstruct this skeptical "truism." One point I wish to make is that many, if not most people with "woo" beliefs did reason themselves into those beliefs. Maybe not sound reasoning, but reasoning nonetheless. Even something like "Mom and Dad said this was true, and they wouldn't lie to me" is reasoning, and becomes open to reasoned discussion, such as "maybe so, but they could be wrong, couldn't they?"
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I would like to see that done! I really think most believers in the paranormal have reasoned themselves into their beliefs, even if, as you say, the reasoning may not be entirely sound.

Another example, and one that applied to me, is the idea that there are too many apparently successful psychics and mediums and healers - they couldn't possibly all be lying or deluded! I thought the sheer numbers were on the side of the believers. Not only that, I thought, but didn't this go back more than a century? Sure, I knew that there were fakes, or just really untalented practitioners out there. But I really believed that the skeptics probably just hadn't been interested enough to be aware of the large number of successful psychics, mediums and healers who had written books and otherwise become famous. I assumed they didn't watch the shows or read the books or bother with any of it very closely, believing it all to be bunk anyway.

I also had the idea that skeptics probably hadn't experienced any sort of psychic phenomena themselves so they just didn't understand.

It wasn't until I began to research the psychics and mediums individually that the whole ball of yarn began to unravel. When I started the process, the last thing I thought was that I would discover that most every one of them could be or had been debunked in one way or another.

Another of my bigger shocks was discovering that many skeptics know as much if not more about the history of this type of thing than do believers. At any rate, they know about a whole different side to it. This is NOT something that most believers will encounter in groups of other believers.

Another shock was realizing that many skeptics have had experiences that believers would consider psychic. Carl Sagan hearing the voices of his deceased parents is a case in point. He didn't attribute it to any paranormal cause, and that turned out to be the only real difference between the two groups. Not an absence of strange experiences, but an entirely different set of possible explanations!

Anyway, enough rambling. Great presentation idea, though!
 
I,always, feel an uncontrollable urge to shake some sense into people like this. I know her atitude seems benign and somewhat foolish but it's people like this who feed the lie that ends up hurting innocent victims.

I wonder where is their sense of reality? Do they live in the real world? If she is so up on Sylvia Brown,did she not see the news about the couple that this faker lied to....saying their kidnapped son was dead? How does her supporters account for this,I wonder? I,also,wonder what colour the sky is on their planets?

I would call some of the antics that various psychics get up to just casual cruelty...they are so obsessed with proving that their powers are legit that they lose sight of how hurtful they behave. Sylvia is out to cause all the pain she can if it interfers with her rip-off attempts. She is my idea of a generic monster in a can.
 
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Your correspondent seems like a nice person but her thinking is naive to the point of being funny. Your response, if you were in a slightly harsh mood, should be along the lines of "She wouldn't put it into a book if she knew it wasn't true? Come on, now. Does Stephen King believe in 17-year-old girls with psychic powers? Does J.K.Rowling believe in eleven-year-old boys with magic powers? Did C.S.Lewis believe in talking lions? Have you ever heard of the concept of 'lying'? What about the concept of 'cheating'? "
 
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I love this thread! I feel like Stopsylvia.com is up and running again.

I wonder why she asked how old are you? It didn't sound like a criticism but like she is really curious about that and wants to keep up a conversation. Kind of like adding at the end of a letter, so how is the weather? Write back soon.

Because she took the time to write a email to you I think she might be having these questions that she asked you in her own mind. She is asking for help to understand why Sylvia would do this if it weren't true? And so on...

The other Susan
 
EeneyMinnieMoe said:
Your correspondent seems like a nice person but her thinking is naive to the point of being funny. Your response, if you were in a slightly harsh mood, should be along the lines of "She wouldn't put it into a book if she knew it wasn't true? Come on, now. Does Stephen King believe in 17-year-old girls with psychic powers? Does J.K.Rowling believe in eleven-year-old boys with magic powers? Did C.S.Lewis believe in talking lions? Have you ever heard of the concept of 'lying'? What about the concept of 'cheating'? "
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Ah, but Stephen King, J.K. Rowling, and C.S. Lewis wrote/write fiction. Now, I'm not defending this gal's way of thinking, but I presume that she believes that Browne's books must be "true" since they are categorized as non-fiction.
 
I once believed her mostly because she seemed so "real" in the sense that she was funny and witty (yes, at one time she was) and Montel Williams endorsed her. I respected what he did for others and thought that if HE supported there must be some truth to Browne.

Later on when I really pondered this and re-read the books I had I was very disillusioned. But it all turned out good. That one step really helped to set me free from all sorts of woo beliefs.
 
I like the way the writer hasn't even considered the concept of self-delusion on Sylvia's (or any other psychic's) part. One can honestly hold a belief, even have carefully considered all of the evidence, and still be wrong. My high school math homework is proof enough of that.
 
You guys. Remember the reply must be in the same vein as previous replies and the website. Otherwise it will be rejected. The reply should not attempt to humiliate the author as some of the suggestions above would do.
 
Staropeace said:
SNIP....

I wonder where is their sense of reality? Do they live in the real world? If she is so up on Sylvia Brown,did she not see the news about the couple that this faker lied to....saying their kidnapped son was dead? How does her supporters account for this,I wonder? I,also,wonder what colour the sky is on their planets?

.....SNIP
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Like this:

RSLancastr said:
I received the following email today in my StopSylvia mailbox

It contains permission to publish it, so I thought I would share it here. I have already composed a reply.

SNIP.....

This world is a whole big industry, so yes- why shouldn`t Sylvia charge people for her sessions? And yes, i believe offcourse that she cant always be accurate at all her predictions. So yes, some people might get hurt. But no, i dont think Sylvia would hurt people on purpose.

.....SNIP
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
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