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A "Before" the Big Bang?

.13. said:
You are locked in 3-dimensional thinking. Stop that. There is no volume in 2-dimensional world. Are you saying that area of 2-dimensional world isn't "substantial" enough?
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There is no such thing as a two-dimensional world, outside of your imagination that is ... Unless of course this second dimension has substance or thickness, which it doesn't. Yes, I acknowledge that it exists but, within the parameters of time and space as a whole.
 
Iacchus said:
There is no such thing as a two-dimensional world, outside of your imagination that is ... Unless of course this second dimension has substance or thickness, which it doesn't.
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The whole point of 2-dimensional world is that it has no thickness. It is my understanding now that you don't consider the surface are "substantial" enough. As I said you can't have 3-dimensional without 1- and 2-dimensional. Or can you build something real from unreal elements?

By the way I thought that things in imagination are as real as anything else? Wasn't that what you said in some other threads? So is imagination a reality or not?
 
.13. said:
It doesn't matter if you stretch the surface. We are talking about space-time here (Aren't we? I'm getting confused.). When the surface stretches the coordinate system does so also.
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The problem is, whenever you start playing with coordinates, you're apt to forsake the actual substance that those coordinates are "supposed" to reperesent ... in other words the substance (whatever it's comprised of) contained within a three-dimensional volume.
 
.13. said:
As I said you can't have 3-dimensional without 1- and 2-dimensional. Or can you build something real from unreal elements?
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You can't have anything really, outside of the existence of "all dimensions."

By the way I thought that things in imagination are as real as anything else? Wasn't that what you said in some other threads? So is imagination a reality or not?
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We "are" our imagination ... at least very least, that which appears on "the surface," and we recognize as ourselves. :D
 
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Iacchus said:
You can't have anything really, outside of the existence of "all dimensions."

We "are" our imagination ... at the very least, that which appears on "the surface," and we recognize as ourselves. :D
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To make sense of my next comment, read this short passage from here.

`When _I_ use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean--neither more nor less.'

`The question is,' said Alice, `whether you CAN make words mean so many different things.'


`The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master-that's all.'

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. `They've a temper, some of them-particularly verbs, they're the proudest--adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs--however, _I_ can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what _I_ say!'


`Would you tell me, please,' said Alice `what that means?'

`Now you talk like a reasonable child,' said Humpty Dumpty, looking very much pleased. `I meant by "impenetrability" that we've had enough of that subject, and it would be just as well if you'd mention what you mean to do next, as I suppose you don't mean to stop here all the rest of your life.'


`That's a great deal to make one word mean,' Alice said in a thoughtful tone.

`When I make a word do a lot of work like that,' said Humpty Dumpty, `I always pay it extra.'


`Oh!' said Alice. She was too much puzzled to make any other remark.
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Oh!
 
Iacchus said:
The problem is, whenever you start playing with coordinates, you're apt to forsake the actual substance that those coordinates are "supposed" to reperesent ... in other words the substance (whatever it's comprised of) contained within a three-dimensional volume.
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I don't understand? Forsake how?

Take a blank piece of paper. Draw the x- and y-axis which intersect at 90 degree angle. Take a ruler and make marks 1 cm apart starting from the origin on the x-axis. Number them, origin is 0 first mark is 1 and so on. Repeat for y-axis. Draw a square which has corners in coordinates (1,1) (1,2) (2,1) and (2,2). Calculate the area. Now rescale (stretch) the coordinate system. Erase earlier marks. Make new ones 2 cm apart starting from the origin. Draw the square again with the same coordinates. Calculate the area.

So nothing happens in the point of view of the "substance" when you play with the coordinates. If you feel ready for it you can try it again but this time stretch only x-axis. Is it still a square in that coordinate system? What is the area?
 
.13.

This might help. Imagine an Y axis and a Y axis and consider the intersection. It can often be called a corner. Now take Iacchus. Defeat and deconstruct all his arguments so he is forced into that corner. Now this is the smart bit. Reflect everything in the Y axis. You are now staring at an empty corner and Iacchus is running away in a different direction in the neighbouring quadrant. Now I see what you are thinking. If I chase him I can force him into a corner in that next quadrant. Sure he can jump again but he can only jump 3 times before getting back to where he has already been.

However this a simplistic 2 dimensional model. I am sure you can work out where this will go when more dimentions are considered.
 
Mojo said:
Don't worry, Iacchus doesn't have any idea either.
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So that means he's starting to feel cornered and is just throwing in words that sound good...

Lothian said:
.13.

This might help. Imagine an Y axis and a Y axis and consider the intersection. It can often be called a corner. Now take Iacchus. Defeat and deconstruct all his arguments so he is forced into that corner. Now this is the smart bit. Reflect everything in the Y axis. You are now staring at an empty corner and Iacchus is running away in a different direction in the neighbouring quadrant. Now I see what you are thinking. If I chase him I can force him into a corner in that next quadrant. Sure he can jump again but he can only jump 3 times before getting back to where he has already been.

However this a simplistic 2 dimensional model. I am sure you can work out where this will go when more dimentions are considered.
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...but it doesn't help me at all since when he runs out of corners he just creates another dimension (thread) and keeps running without missing a step.

Thanks guys. I'm getting more and more familiar with the character that is Iacchus.
 
Ask Iacchus this:

What is the 'thickness' of a shadow?

Then wait for a very long time (or read the obfuscation that eminates thereby).
 
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