911 Facts Consolidated

[Mudcat]

If memory serves. This "hermetically sealed" comes from Loose Change. They were referring to the elevator shafts. I believe it was to counter the argument that the explosions in the basement were from a fireball down the shafts.

Anyway you slice it, it's still stupid.

I take it these people have never been in an elevator then. This 'hermetically sealed' seal would break every time the elevator doors opened.

 

[Macgyver1968]

In my friend's kid's soccer league...if the score goes above 10 scores difference...they call the game...shouldn't there be something like that for truthers?

 

[ElMondoHummus]

If memory serves. This "hermetically sealed" comes from Loose Change. They were referring to the elevator shafts. I believe it was to counter the argument that the explosions in the basement were from a fireball down the shafts.

Anyway you slice it, it's still stupid.

Oh, damn, yeah, you're right. It was in conjunction with their claims that there were no elevator shafts that ran all the way to the basement (http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80065; BTW, I just realized that that's a claim that hasn't been resurrected in a while).

I agree: The claim is indeed as dumb as dumb could be. If you think about it, a hermetically sealed elevator would sort of be dysfunctional and useless.

I take it these people have never been in an elevator then. This 'hermetically sealed' seal would break every time the elevator doors opened.

On top of that, I'm curious to see just how little clearance conspiracy fantasists think there was been between the elevator car and the shaft walls. Or just how good a seal those sliding doors made. But yeah, we all agree: This is a supremely ignorant claim.

 

[Justin39640]

In my friend's kid's soccer league...if the score goes above 10 scores difference...they call the game...shouldn't there be something like that for truthers?

I dated a woman with a kid for a bunch of years. Coached Lacrosse. If the game started getting lopsided they would handicap the winning team. Pull defense men, midis, even the goalie. If that didn't work they called it a tie and walked off the field.

I was dumbfounded when I first read the rules. I always thought a huge part of learning sports and sportsmanship was learning how to lose gracefully. Guess not. The only thing it did in the end was that the kids used it as a crutch. One said in all seriousness "we can just lose real bad and then it'll be a tie!". I complained loudly but it fell on deaf ears .

 

[ElMondoHummus]

It is a long time since we saw a genuine truther engaging in reasoned debate.

I concede the point.

 

[JohnG]

I dated a woman with a kid for a bunch of years. Coached Lacrosse. If the game started getting lopsided they would handicap the winning team. Pull defense men, midis, even the goalie. If that didn't work they called it a tie and walked off the field.

I was dumbfounded when I first read the rules. I always thought a huge part of learning sports and sportsmanship was learning how to lose gracefully. Guess not. The only thing it did in the end was that the kids used it as a crutch. One said in all seriousness "we can just lose real bad and then it'll be a tie!". I complained loudly but it fell on deaf ears .

Yeah, it's this "everyone is a winner" environment that most Truthers under the age of 35 grew up in. It sounds good on paper but I'm not convinced it's really doing kids any favors. It might help explain young Truthers' blithely oblivious overconfidence in their own qualifications when it comes to discussing subjects they clearly know NOTHING about.

 

[ozeco41]

I concede the point.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Sigh. I see Clayton's been watching Dick Gage's box explanation continuously...and MikeyS is pulling his "facts" out of thin air...status quo.

I really don't understand why people who are so convinced it was an "inside job" STILL fail after 11 years to comprehend HOW the towers were built. TIP CLAYTON: They weren't built with Big Blocks™...the tower's stability relied on the fusion of core and outter columns coupled by the floor trusses. When floor trusses failed that stability failed. When collapse initiated the weight of the upper damaged portions crushed down on ONE Floor beneath, which caused that floor to fail, the outter columns peeled away, which is why you twoofers see it as "explosive ejections".

Seriously, please, educate yourself on how the things were built FFS! You can't even comprehend that 11 years later. This is utter nonsense.

the tower's stability relied on the fusion of core and outter columns coupled by the floor trusses.

no no no no no no noo no no no no no no no nooooo


The huge core columns inside the building near the elevators were the KEYS to the tower's stability.

 

[Clayton Moore]

As pointed out by others, what do you think makes things fall when the supports are taken away?

Anyway, you don't need to take my word for the amount of energy stored in the. WTC towers due to their mass and height; you can calculate it yourself using a little calculus and physics. Look up the equation in an early 1900 physics textbook if you are afraid of a 9/11 conspracy. Whatever brought the towers down must have released that amount of energy!

So what do you think 200 tons of TNT would do to a black box or an iPad?

During the so called "collapse" how do you take away all those huge steel columns at an equal pace, floor by floor, with the majority of each floor that is without huge steel columns?

 

[BrianH]

During the so called "collapse" how do you take away all those huge steel columns at an equal pace, floor by floor, with the majority of each floor that is without huge steel columns?

So, not only was there no gravity involved, but there was no collapse either? Is NYC just CGI now? They really need to update their physics engine.

 

[Ape of Good Hope]

During the so called "collapse"

They definitely collapsed, Clayton.

Can I remind you that the title of this thread is "911 Facts Consolidated".



Try to stay on topic, old bean.

 

[dafydd]

During the so called "collapse" how do you take away all those huge steel columns at an equal pace, floor by floor, with the majority of each floor that is without huge steel columns?

So called collapse? Are you saying that the buildings did not collapse? Was it CGI, and the buildings are still there, hidden with the help of David Blaine?

 

[000063]

If memory serves. This "hermetically sealed" comes from Loose Change. They were referring to the elevator shafts. I believe it was to counter the argument that the explosions in the basement were from a fireball down the shafts.

Anyway you slice it, it's still stupid.

And then, by the usual Truther game of telephone, it becomes the entire building.

Yeah, it's this "everyone is a winner" environment that most Truthers under the age of 35 grew up in. It sounds good on paper but I'm not convinced it's really doing kids any favors. It might help explain young Truthers' blithely oblivious overconfidence in their own qualifications when it comes to discussing subjects they clearly know NOTHING about.

It also helps explain quite a lot about Tumblr, especially the, ahem, "socially conscious" folks on there. The irony is that I'm technically part of Generation Dunning-Kruger. Maybe it's all the books I read.

During the so called "collapse" how do you take away all those huge steel columns at an equal pace, floor by floor, with the majority of each floor that is without huge steel columns?

Dodge.

 

[NoahFence]

no no no no no no noo no no no no no no no nooooo


the huge core columns inside the building near the elevators were the a key to the tower's stability.

ftfy

 

[NoahFence]

During the so called "collapse" how do you take away all those huge steel columns at an equal pace, floor by floor, with the majority of each floor that is without huge steel columns?

"So called" collapse?

So what - the buildings are still standing? Regardless of what theory you support, CD or Reality, the buildings are GONE.

 

[Dcdrac]

I guess they must have been whisked away at night when no one was looking by those darn aliens again......

 

[NoahFence]

I see this as a wonderful opportunity for a truther to admit he made a mistake. A harmless exaggeration.

 

[tfk]

During the so called "collapse" how do you take away all those huge steel columns at an equal pace, floor by floor, with the majority of each floor that is without huge steel columns?

What on earth makes you think that the core columns must be removed "at an equal pace"??

Do you not remember a subset of about 8 - 16 columns still standing after the rest of the building had completely collapsed? These columns stood for several seconds after the other columns on the same floors had collapsed.

Does any of that look like the columns had to collapse "at the same time" to you?

And yet, the collapse still happened. Still went straight down.

Are you able to amend your fantasies to match what clearly happened?

Haven't seen any evidence of this yet.

 

[beachnut]

...
The huge core columns inside the building near the elevators were the KEYS to the tower's stability.

The core was for gravity loads. The shell of the WTC was for lateral loads. The system used to connect the core to the shell enabled the core to add additional lateral stiffness. The WTC was a system.

Ignorance of the WTC structure works = why you don't understand the collapse, spreading crazy claims.

The tubular framing system for the perimeter walls resisted all of the lateral forces imposed by wind and earthquake, as well as the impact loads imposed on September 11. Although we had used closely spaced columns in an earlier building, it was Minoru Yamasaki who proposed that we use narrow windows in the WTC towers to give people a sense of security as they looked down from on high. Our contribution was to make the closely spaced columns the fundamental lateral-force-resisting system for the two towers. The tubular framing system also precluded the need for the customary 30-foot column spacing in interior areas, making column-free, rentable space structurally desirable. http://www.nae.edu/Publications/Bri...ecurity/ReflectionsontheWorldTradeCenter.aspx

Your best effort at research?

no no no no no no noo no no no no no no no nooooo ...

Your research saves time, and you don't have to think; your conclusions are a reflection of your extensive research.

 

[jaydeehess]

no no no no no no noo no no no no no no no nooooo


The huge core columns inside the building near the elevators were the KEYS to the tower's stability.

Imagine, if you will Clayton. That the interior core columns are all in place and in pristine, original condition and that magically and instantaneously the perimeter columns disappear.

Would you expect :
a) the floors continue to be supported by the core columns alone, perhaps only bending down at the outside slightly.
b) the floors all separate from the core as well and fall to earth but the core structure remains upright and intact
c) the floors all fall away from the core and the core subsequently buckles and fails

The answer would be 'c' but I suspect that Clayton would expect 'a' or 'b' to be what occurs. Furthermore he has no idea why 'c' would be the result.