$9/h minimum wage

[Mudcat]

I'm concerned that another increase in minimum wage will cost more jobs and cause employers to cut back on hours even more than they already have. I was concerned about the same thing when they increased the wage to $7.00/hr, and I was right.

Do we really want more the same?

 

[lionking]

Why wouldn't an employer pay $9/hr? It's a matter of whether or not the employee's labor is desired, not what the cost per skill level is.

Where the evidence on this job loss myth?

Absolutely correct. Reading some posts here you would think employers take on people out of altruism, and not with the expectation they will increase business profitability. Employers who sack people due to this small rise rather than pass costs on to customers are incompetent, stupid or both.

 

[Damien Evans]

And how much do a dozen eggs cost in Oz? It's $1.49 at my local grocery store.

I'll check next time I'm at the shop.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I'm concerned that another increase in minimum wage will cost more jobs and cause employers to cut back on hours even more than they already have. I was concerned about the same thing when they increased the wage to $7.00/hr, and I was right.

Do we really want more the same?

Evidence? Like Skeptic Ginger said, the data is really messy to say the least.

Monopsony power is the basic sticking point, but there are many other critiques.

 

[Damien Evans]

I do have empathy and believe in social safety nets, but the minimum wage is smoke and mirrors. Makes everyone feel good but doesn't actually do anything.

You can mandate minimum wages, but you can't mandate value to those wages. See Australia, for example. High minimum wage, but everything is much more expensive. At the end of the day it's a wash. Good for nothing but internet bragging rights.

Not quite, a minimum wage worker in Australia has much more purchasing power compared to the median wage here than one would in America. This is because an Australian minimum wage worker earns 58% of the median wage, and an American minimum wage worker earns 34% of the median wage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_law#Australia

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm concerned that another increase in minimum wage will cost more jobs and cause employers to cut back on hours even more than they already have. I was concerned about the same thing when they increased the wage to $7.00/hr, and I was right.

Do we really want more the same?

Evidence? Where is the evidence this GOP propaganda is true. I posted studies supporting the opposite.

Let's see the research, this is a skeptics forum after all. I'm willing to read it.

 

[lionking]

Not quite, a minimum wage worker in Australia has much more purchasing power compared to the median wage here than one would in America. This is because an Australian minimum wage worker earns 58% of the median wage, and an American minimum wage worker earns 34% of the median wage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_law#Australia

Correct. Income distribution is far different in Australia. The US minimum wage is much lower than Australia's, yet the US median wage is higher. I much prefer the system which allows people on the minimum wage to survive, even if we don't have quite as many millionaires.

 

[Mudcat]

Evidence? Like Skeptic Ginger said, the data is really messy to say the least.

Monopsony power is the basic sticking point, but there are many other critiques.

Evidence? Where is the evidence this GOP propaganda is true. I posted studies supporting the opposite.

Let's see the research, this is a skeptics forum after all. I'm willing to read it.

Back when the law was announced increasing the wage I was already working eight dollars an hour. I made more money per paycheck back then, because I was employed eight hours a day five to six days a week.

Ever since it was put into effect I've been lucky to pull twenty hours a week, working the same pay. I've even been laid off at one job because they wouldn't keep the dish washers and decided to have the cooks do double duty.

I've done very poorly since the wage increase and so have many people like me. It don't take an economist or a business major to figure out why.

 

[lionking]

Higher wages for low paying workers would lead to greater expenditure by them and increased demand. The extra money won't be hidden away in trusts and put into banks. It doesn't have to lead to job losses.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Back when the law was announced increasing the wage I was already working eight dollars an hour. I made more money per paycheck back then, because I was employed eight hours a day five to six days a week.

Ever since it was put into effect I've been lucky to pull twenty hours a week, working the same pay. I've even been laid off at one job because they wouldn't keep the dish washers and decided to have the cooks do double duty.

I've done very poorly since the wage increase and so have many people like me. It don't take an economists or a business major to figure out why.

So your anecdote trumps studies? Correlation does not equal causation. Skepticism cliché, skepticism cliché .

 

[Mudcat]

So your anecdote trumps studies? Correlation does not equal causation. Skepticism cliché, skepticism cliché .

Oh? And what do these studies show?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Oh? And what do these studies show?

Of course you didn't bother reading them.

They show that raising the minimum wage does not result in job losses, but instead results in stimulating the economy.

Perhaps you'd like to look again.

 

[Mudcat]

Of course you didn't bother reading them.

Or I was simply unaware of them, thank you for pointing them out to me. I'll look it over and reassess my belief. Still doesn't explain the loss of hours or the lay off, though.

 

[balrog666]

Higher wages for low paying workers would lead to greater expenditure by them and increased demand. The extra money won't be hidden away in trusts and put into banks. It doesn't have to lead to job losses.

Except it leads directly to higher transportation costs for everything transported by trucks controlled by unions - which means damn near everything, everywhere, so say "hello" to higher costs everywhere, every time for everything you buy.

It won't bother me, but the rest of you might just have a problem with that!

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Guess some spoon feeding is in order.

MINIMUM WAGE EFFECTS ACROSS STATE BORDERS: ESTIMATES USING CONTIGUOUS COUNTIES

For cross-state contiguous counties, we find strong earnings effects and no employment effects of minimum wage increases

Do Minimum Wages Really Reduce Teen Employment? Accounting for Heterogeneity and Selectivity in State Panel Data

Put simply, our findings indicate that minimum wage increases—in the range that have been implemented in the United States—do not reduce employment among teens

The Wage and Employment Impact of Minimum‐Wage Laws in Three Cities

The experience of smaller establishments in San Francisco and Santa Fe – whether they were initially below or just above the size exempted by the new laws – suggests that small establishments do not respond to minimum wages differently than larger firms. Small establishments below the size cutoffs in those cities did not experience systematic changes in employment. The same was true for small establishments just above the size cutoffs in these cities.

The Economic Effects of a Citywide Minimum Wage

The authors find that the policy increased worker pay and compressed wage inequality, but did not create any detectable employment loss among affected restaurants.

Right winger's turn.

 

[IchabodPlain]

I think what surprises me most about this thread is the presumption that everyone can work these higher-value careers (whatever they might be). Let's be honest; not everyone's cut out in that regard and then the underlying question that follows it up is what then do we do with those unfortunates?

Is empathy and 'there but for the Grace of God go I' entirely passee in this age of efficiency fixation?

Fitz

The dark underbelly of the bleeding heart.

 

[Mudcat]

Guess some spoon feeding is in order.

Who needs spoon feeding or hand holding here? Isn't it normal to want to know why your fortune has turn sour at the same time the minimum wage went up?

Right winger's turn.

Lovely, except I'm not a right winger.

Another good reason to say no to the wage increase is inflation. How much longer until after the increase of the wage does inflation negate that increase? How many times must the wage increase because of inflation before we tackle the actual source of the problem?

 

[ehcks]

Who needs spoon feeding or hand holding here? Isn't it normal to want to know why your fortune has turn sour at the same time the minimum wage went up?

In roughly the same way that it's normal to wonder why the temperature is going up at the same time there are fewer pirates.

 

[WildCat]

Not quite, a minimum wage worker in Australia has much more purchasing power compared to the median wage here than one would in America. This is because an Australian minimum wage worker earns 58% of the median wage, and an American minimum wage worker earns 34% of the median wage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_law#Australia

That's not how you measure purchasing power.

According to the OECD you need ~$1.52 in Australian dollars to buy in Australia what you can get for $1 US in the USA.

Source

According to the US BLS only 3% of US jobs are minimum wage, and less than 1% are full-time minimum wage. 5.3% of wage earners make minimum wage. Most minimum wage workers are under 25.

In Australia about 15% of wage earners earn minimum wage, nearly triple the US rate. I wonder if some higher-skilled minimum and near-minimum wage workers are paid less in order to subsidize the pay of the less-skilled minimum wage workers?

To hear people on this forum you'd think that most everyone earns minimum wage, and the only reason an employer ever gives a rais is because of government mandate. The reality is that as workers skills improve they move up the pay scale, and very few earn minimum. Certainly not the typical family of 4 this hike is being sold as helping.

 

[Mudcat]

In roughly the same way that it's normal to wonder why the temperature is going up at the same time there are fewer pirates.

Cute reference, but wrong. Pirates and temperature have no correlation at all (except maybe the temperatures go up and pirates don't want to go vikinging pirating in all that hot weather), but wage increases and job losses? More closely related, don't you think?