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9/11 Wiki Project

TAM can you respond to the operation diamondback? or john o'neil thing? how about isi/cia opium drug trade, or atleast the isi/al queda drug trade impact on terrorists, also, tell me who has benefitted since 911 money wise.... since you are so wise about 911 you gotta know alot about these things :)
 
The things i believe are not based on ANY PROVABLE false data bub haha...for one thing you don't even know me and don't know what i belive in do you? At least to a great degree....you are running in circles, you cut down possibilites when they are provably false, thats the process a scientist goes through. So is believing that the ISI / CIA connections with 911 as well as the John O'Neil story being related to a cover up from some govt portion is that so wild to believe?? You can't prove that wrong, nor can we say it is 100% correct! Who is the one making up their mind now? Maby you don't have all the issues straight in your head?? See, just cuz the twin towers might not have been taken down with CD's doesn't mean the govt was not complacent in the attacks. :)
Is there anything in this that actually relates to what I said? Do you just randomly throw words onto the screen and see what sticks?
Please, go back and try again. This is just totally unrelated to the subject.
 
First off, I don't know any of you personally so i dont know what you have or have not studied however...if you do not mention overwhelming information from articles and news reports about an issue you either 1. ignore this info in turn for your own assumptions or 2. have not seen it. I said IF you have ignored this, i didnt claim he/you or anyone IN particular has, but obviously alot of people have somewhere. now on to your points

1. again i didnt say you did JUST used 1 source, but do you trust the writers of the book given their history and the obvious bias going into it?

2. bull, alot of folks watch fox news or cnn etc...i am speaking in general terms. again i don't know you or anyone here or their life history in research ;)

3. why do you say "we" as if you speak for everyone standing for the "official story" or "true story" lol, really? doubt you really do know alot about 911.

4. the comission ignore serious details about 911 including

wtc 7, isi connections with hijackers, core columns in the wtc towers, they only had 2 people that saw crucial classified documents from the whitehouse etc...they also didn't mention bombs in the basement of the towers, which gonzalez talks about, it was filled with reps and dems, no unbiased independent investigators that could search with "highly specialized degrees" in these fields. if they had unfettered access to classified documents (un political folks atleast) then we could trust their judgement! Now, did you know any of this? be honest....have you seen "who killed john o'neil" or "911 press for truth"?

my paragraph is full of fact, truth but some opinion you are right on that...and the things i am not right on, i wish we could work together to reach the truth!! ;) why don't you talk about anything here and bring new informative things to this forum if you hold so many truths?? maby you just need to shut your mouth and listen to something i am saying instead of telliing people how much they are wrong, and giving nothing! :)

Is English not your primary language? I'm asking because your writing is not very clear. I'm having a difficult time understanding what your point is and what any of it has to do with the posts of the people you're responding to. I think should start a new thread to address whatever it is you are trying to say, as it is very much off topic.
 
First off, I don't know any of you personally so i dont know what you have or have not studied however...if you do not mention overwhelming information from articles and news reports about an issue you either 1. ignore this info in turn for your own assumptions or 2. have not seen it. I said IF you have ignored this, i didnt claim he/you or anyone IN particular has, but obviously alot of people have somewhere. now on to your points

1. again i didnt say you did JUST used 1 source, but do you trust the writers of the book given their history and the obvious bias going into it?

2. bull, alot of folks watch fox news or cnn etc...i am speaking in general terms. again i don't know you or anyone here or their life history in research ;)

3. why do you say "we" as if you speak for everyone standing for the "official story" or "true story" lol, really? doubt you really do know alot about 911.

4. the comission ignore serious details about 911 including

wtc 7, isi connections with hijackers, core columns in the wtc towers, they only had 2 people that saw crucial classified documents from the whitehouse etc...they also didn't mention bombs in the basement of the towers, which gonzalez talks about, it was filled with reps and dems, no unbiased independent investigators that could search with "highly specialized degrees" in these fields. if they had unfettered access to classified documents (un political folks atleast) then we could trust their judgement! Now, did you know any of this? be honest....have you seen "who killed john o'neil" or "911 press for truth"?

my paragraph is full of fact, truth but some opinion you are right on that...and the things i am not right on, i wish we could work together to reach the truth!! ;) why don't you talk about anything here and bring new informative things to this forum if you hold so many truths?? maby you just need to shut your mouth and listen to something i am saying instead of telliing people how much they are wrong, and giving nothing! :)
There were no bombs in the basement. Where are the facts you have?

If you believe the 9/11 truth movement you have joined the fact less few. If you believe the lies from the truth movement point out the evidence to support them.

Bring on the evidence, the new evidence, can not wait to see some new stuff.
 
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I'd like to point out that there's already a SkepticWiki ([swiki]Main Page[/swiki]), founded and mostly edited by JREFers.

Here's the section on Conspiracy Theories. As you can see, some of the articles still need writing (the ones with red links) and the article on 9/11 is (a) not very long (b) probably not up-to-date with the latest lunacy (c) just one article. 9/11 needs a whole bunch of articles, there's so much woo surrounding it.

The problem is that so far no dedicated conspiracy debunker --- not one! --- has registered yet.

I should add that I recently checked, and a lot of our articles come up in the top 10 Google hits --- sometimes as the top Google hit. Adding to the SkepticWiki ensures that people will actually read what you have to say.

Registration is by request, so there are no vandals.

Our Glorious Leader is fowlsound, I'll link him to this thread.


I signed up at Skeptic Wiki after a suggestion by geni to put the information I'd posted about Leslie Raphael's Naudet conspiracy there. But when I went to post there, I thought I would be giving Leslie Raphael too much credibility to include him among the major 9/11 conspiracy theories.

I feel like I've been lax in not helping edit any other stories, but I have a bit of a debunking inferiority complex when I'm not face-to-face (or pc to pc) with loony twoofers.

I also feel like I should just get off my lazy behind and start editing, and take it from there.
 
Thanks Orphia. Yes I think that page can be split into several different topics under a common subject. I once again ask anyone who wishes to help PM me.
 
I signed up at Skeptic Wiki after a suggestion by geni to put the information I'd posted about Leslie Raphael's Naudet conspiracy there. But when I went to post there, I thought I would be giving Leslie Raphael too much credibility to include him among the major 9/11 conspiracy theories.

I feel like I've been lax in not helping edit any other stories, but I have a bit of a debunking inferiority complex when I'm not face-to-face (or pc to pc) with loony twoofers.

I also feel like I should just get off my lazy behind and start editing, and take it from there.

Yeah- I signed up a few days ago and have been putting some things together- I haven't made an edit, yet. Once I'm done with the Fetzer-Roberts debates I will start editing the page(s) on the skepticwiki.
 
Is there anything in this that actually relates to what I said? Do you just randomly throw words onto the screen and see what sticks?
Please, go back and try again. This is just totally unrelated to the subject.

ok, i don't have time if you don't know what you said or the points you were making. I answered it and gave you an example of why you believe it or not, yet you still don't get it...just respond to me letter (read it carefully and think) then i will respond to you again!
 
Is English not your primary language? I'm asking because your writing is not very clear. I'm having a difficult time understanding what your point is and what any of it has to do with the posts of the people you're responding to. I think should start a new thread to address whatever it is you are trying to say, as it is very much off topic.

I am speaking from a list the person i am responding to sent...i am not writing a research paper slay, i am just typing in a forum to ge the message across quickly! Yes english is my primary language...maby you don't read what i say and think about it or research it yourself? Maby that's why you don't understand...I am responding to another poster, it has to do with 911 and the skeptics of these so called "conspiracy theories". Maby you should actually bring up informative issues then you will have the authority to tell me i am off topic! Please can someone just respond to my posts instead of trying to character assault me or make me out to be a fool...the only fool is the one who see and hears the truth but ignores it...;) whoever that might be :D
 
israelside, I'm going to explain what is wrong with the way you are posting. It isn't meant as a personal attack, but a way for you to understand why you don't come across as someone we can take seriously.
The way you compose your posts is like a teenager texting a friend on a cell phone. You have poorly formed sentences, sentence fragments that make no sense, poor spelling, and run-on sentences. Also, you do not format your text in any way, just one big paragraph! This make for difficult reading, and makes it hard to follow what you are trying to say.
Yes, you are not typing a research paper, but unless you are trying to show you are nothing more than a pimply-faced slacker, you should put some effort into what you're typing. It's not that hard!
 
israelside, I'm going to explain what is wrong with the way you are posting. It isn't meant as a personal attack, but a way for you to understand why you don't come across as someone we can take seriously.
The way you compose your posts is like a teenager texting a friend on a cell phone. You have poorly formed sentences, sentence fragments that make no sense, poor spelling, and run-on sentences. Also, you do not format your text in any way, just one big paragraph! This make for difficult reading, and makes it hard to follow what you are trying to say.
Yes, you are not typing a research paper, but unless you are trying to show you are nothing more than a pimply-faced slacker, you should put some effort into what you're typing. It's not that hard!

I have not gone to such depths in my writing, i have spoken with clarity and have raised serious issues with you and everyone else. I am not writing to have the president examine my work. What's funny is why you take the time to write that, it seems like it's more important to you for someone to type correctly than for them to say anything important or valuable! Most people here want to slam folks and use mindless idiotic words to refute others cases. Maby you should be the one to grow up and actually RESPOND to someone's claims instead of forcing them to type the way you want them too...let me ask, how old are you and what do you do for a living? I ask anyone to think for a minute and ask themselves, what more important gramatical writing or substance?? A pimply faced teenager who is a slacker would never come in a room like this and ask honest, serious questions to people who supposidly have studied about 911...I am beginning to think you don't know much at all about 9/11 ;)
 
haha but after all Jim, we can take you seriously because you are the steely eyed killer of the deep lol...enough said...why debate with someone who calls themself a killer? Not exactly like Jesus...it is 2007 get with the new lingo dude...again, character assassination, you can't deny it. It only proves how much you want to ignore the truth and the things I writing about...please respond to my posts like a true ADULT (because obviously you are one) right?
 
haha but after all Jim, we can take you seriously because you are the steely eyed killer of the deep lol...enough said...why debate with someone who calls themself a killer? Not exactly like Jesus...it is 2007 get with the new lingo dude...again, character assassination, you can't deny it. It only proves how much you want to ignore the truth and the things I writing about...please respond to my posts like a true ADULT (because obviously you are one) right?
OMG dude im totaly riting in teh nu limgo jest soes we canlike totallly wuenrdrtsnd ech otter! im so pwned!!!!111eleventyone!!!
My little thing about "Steely-eyed killer of the deep" is a humorous aside about my years of serving on submarines in the Navy. If that bothers you, well, get over it or get used to it. Don't really care, and doesn't prove anything about what I thought the discussion was about. You're right, it's not like Jesus, but then Jesus never spent 60 days on patrol underwater, so he's obviously a dink non-qual, and should have his liberty revoked until he gets his dolphins.
I want to be able to understand what the devil you're trying to say without having to translate it from teenspeak to adult english. If you won't put the effort into that, then obviously this is not a serious matter to you. So, since you don't want to take it seriously, I'm not going to take you seriously anymore, either.
 
I am speaking from a list the person i am responding to sent...i am not writing a research paper slay, i am just typing in a forum to ge the message across quickly! Yes english is my primary language...maby you don't read what i say and think about it or research it yourself? Maby that's why you don't understand...I am responding to another poster, it has to do with 911 and the skeptics of these so called "conspiracy theories". Maby you should actually bring up informative issues then you will have the authority to tell me i am off topic! Please can someone just respond to my posts instead of trying to character assault me or make me out to be a fool...the only fool is the one who see and hears the truth but ignores it...;) whoever that might be :D

Not one of the posts in this thread is a research paper, Israel, and yet the writing in all of them is clear and cogent except for yours. Why is that?

And yes, you are off topic. This thread is not a place for you to semi-intelligibly spew every pet conspiracy claim or tangential irrelevance you can think of and impudently demand answers for them. Please start a new thread for the issues you want debunkers to address, and try to keep it focused on one issue at a time. Many of them have been covered already, but maybe someone with a great deal more patience than I will indulge you.
 
I have not gone to such depths in my writing, i have spoken with clarity and have raised serious issues with you and everyone else. I am not writing to have the president examine my work. What's funny is why you take the time to write that, it seems like it's more important to you for someone to type correctly than for them to say anything important or valuable! Most people here want to slam folks and use mindless idiotic words to refute others cases. Maby you should be the one to grow up and actually RESPOND to someone's claims instead of forcing them to type the way you want them too...let me ask, how old are you and what do you do for a living? I ask anyone to think for a minute and ask themselves, what more important gramatical writing or substance?? A pimply faced teenager who is a slacker would never come in a room like this and ask honest, serious questions to people who supposidly have studied about 911...I am beginning to think you don't know much at all about 9/11 ;)
Substance is not always taken seriously unless it is written properly...understand?
 
I have not gone to such depths in my writing, i have spoken with clarity and have raised serious issues with you and everyone else. I am not writing to have the president examine my work. What's funny is why you take the time to write that, it seems like it's more important to you for someone to type correctly than for them to say anything important or valuable! Most people here want to slam folks and use mindless idiotic words to refute others cases. Maby you should be the one to grow up and actually RESPOND to someone's claims instead of forcing them to type the way you want them too...let me ask, how old are you and what do you do for a living? I ask anyone to think for a minute and ask themselves, what more important gramatical writing or substance?? A pimply faced teenager who is a slacker would never come in a room like this and ask honest, serious questions to people who supposidly have studied about 911...I am beginning to think you don't know much at all about 9/11 ;)
I didn't respond to your question in this one, and I don't want you to think that I'm dodging it.
I'm 52 years old, and am an engineering technician. You?
 
The things i believe are not based on ANY PROVABLE false data bub haha...for one thing you don't even know me and don't know what i belive in do you?
Sure we do...we know that you believe in immature attacks based on woogic™ :)
 
have you even looked at the timeline?



Yes, I've read the entire thing, and followed many of the links provided to news articles (when they worked, that is).




it cover articles from mainstream media regarding 911, why ignore 50 mainstream articles talking about operation diamondback but believe 1 book by so called "unbiased" whitewashing politicians called the 911 commission?


I've got much of my information from the mainstream media, rather than the 9/11 Commission Report.

I have a number of issues with the 9/11 Timeline. The main one is that clearly the author has an agenda, not to determine truth, but to foster confusion and uncertainty.

No effort is made to cross-reference or fact check articles, and all media articles are given equal credibility.

The end result is literally thousands of articles which can pretty much present whatever picture you want them to present.

And herein likes my second biggest concern.

The author chooses which part of the article to highlight. Most people who read it do not go and read every single linked article (indeed, many of the links don't work). Further, the author then adds significant amounts of speculative exposition about the articles, designed to manipulate a reader's interpretation of the information. Reading the articles reveals that some contain information (which the author fails to mention) that directly refutes the speculation offered by the author.

A very simple example revolved around the alleged NORAD wargames.

Numerous articles cite "Operation Northern Vigilance" as a wargame undertaken that day, involving NORAD aircraft and pretend attackers in the form of inputs.

A brief effort at investigating this would reveal that Operation Northern Vigilance was not an exercise in any form, but a real-world operational deployment (indeed this fact is evident in the name itself).

As such, Northern Vigilance has no bearing on the NORAD CONUS Region Air Defense mission and does not involve "inputs" of any kind.

Rather than determine this simple information, Thompson blindly presents incorrect media articles and then speculates based on them.



or ignore 50 articles talking about cia / isi / taliban connections with drugs, naroctics illegal trading and complacent actions? WHY IGNORE ALL THIS????



Another problem with the mainstream media is sourcing. Often a topic will be covered in multiple media outlets, and this looks good. However closer inspection often reveals that all of these outlets got the story from the same source, thus in actual fact the story is not collaborated at all. This is more common than you might think.




you are a fool if you ignore this in trade for fox news or some big media outlet who is owned by multinational corporations trying to make a buck off the idiots who love tragedy and murder and violence in the world??


All media outlets love tragedy murder and violence. Indeed fringe outlets such as Alex Jones' "Prison Planet" only deal in tragedy murder and violence.

For the record I don't watch Fox News. It is available in New Zealand via the Sky Network (channel 92) however it's not part of the default package and I don't believe we have it where I live.

I don't actually watch television, and don't own one. I get virtually all of my news from the internet. for local news (and to keep up with the domestic angle on international events) I primarily use TVNZ (the national government-owned network) and The New Zealand Herald (New Zealand's largest newspaper, owned by APN). For international news I primarily tune into the BBC and CNN, however I tend to delve into additional sources for specific events of interest. Every now and then I pop into MEMRI to see what Middle-east media are saying (usually when an event relating to the Middle East occurs that I am interested in).

For any subject which is of particular interest of me (such as 9/11) my sources of information expand exponentially (for example my 19-page paper on NORAD's response to the attacks uses no less than 21 resources).

Ideally the best source for information is experts in the specific field, or people that experienced events first hand. This is one of the reasons I enjoy this forum so much - there is a wealth of expertise here in many many fields, and a wealth of life experiences. All of this is information I can draw on.




Why cover the virginia shooting for a week? why not cover the 50 iraqi's killed a day for more time and interview their family? you know why? b/c the media knows what people want to see, and what they need to feed them inorder for them to continue to want to watch...an evil mindset for scaming people and making them slaves for the NWO power brokers and global bankers! Please respond on this!


The media do this because they know what sells papers and boosts television and radio ratings. They're corporations in a capitalist economy. All they care about is making money. In this regard they're no different to any other company in a capitalist economy - from the corner store owned by a family to a trans-global conglomerate.

-Gumboot
 
Just thought I'd quickly address this:


4. the comission ignore serious details about 911 including

wtc 7



A study of building performance was not part of the Commission's mandate. This is being investigated by NIST.



, isi connections with hijackers

The Commission did investigate this, and found nothing that compelling. I suspect they didn't press too hard, since by the time the Commission was formed Osama bin Laden and others had escaped into Pakistan, thus the USA needs Pakistan's help to capture him.



, core columns in the wtc towers

A study of building performance was not part of the Commission's mandate. This was investigated by NIST.




, they only had 2 people that saw crucial classified documents from the whitehouse etc...


How can this be "ignored" by the commission? The documented which only a few could review were highly sensitive classified documents pertaining to national security.




they also didn't mention bombs in the basement of the towers, which gonzalez talks about


I'm not entirely sure who gonzalez is, but there were no bombs in the basement of the towers, thus talking about them would be somewhat odd.




, it was filled with reps and dems


Yes it was. Virtually all key political figures in the USA are either Republicans or Democrats.



, no unbiased independent investigators that could search with "highly specialized degrees" in these fields.
if they had unfettered access to classified documents (un political folks atleast) then we could trust their judgement!


You seem to be proposing that random civilians be given willy-nilly access to classified and highly sensitive documents. Such a notion is highly irresponsible and stupid.




Now, did you know any of this? be honest....have you seen "who killed john o'neil" or "911 press for truth"?


I haven't seen "Who Killed John O'Neil", but given that it's a fictional film, I'm not overly worried about that. I have seen "9/11 Press For Truth" and wasn't impressed by it. (I was especially disappointed to hear one of the "Jersey Girls" claim that the military did "nothing for two hours" while the attacks unfolded. This from a person who offers appeals to their own authority, claiming they have researched event in depth for years.

-Gumboot
 

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