9/11 — The Myth & the Reality

http://www.serendipity.li/wot/571-page-lie.htm

The above will take you to the 115. Errors Griffin finds with the 9/11 Commission. If you take them one by one and demolish them, you will cover everything that could possibly be thrown at you.

TAM:)

Yeah but how exactly is this going to work?

A group of interested people turn up to watch a film highlighting important civic issues of worldwide import, and some joker at the back stands up and says "Excuse me twoofers! I have 115 points of rebuttal which I will read to you now ..."

I'd love to be there.
 
Yeah but how exactly is this going to work?

A group of interested people turn up to watch a film highlighting important civic issues of worldwide import, and some joker at the back stands up and says "Excuse me twoofers! I have 115 points of rebuttal which I will read to you now ..."

I'd love to be there.
Are you truthers challenged to find facts and why do you always lie with your labeling?

You should have said, "...watch a film full of lies and false information about 9/11 from a liar."

How are CTers so consistently wrong about everything 9/11?

Is there a special 9/11 school for nuts and dolts? Did you get your degree at that school Pdoh?
 
I thought I'd have a brief dip into the pool of OCT's tactics.
Ooops, there I go again.

scooby, my "tactics" are simple: i will research the claims, and if they are demonstratably false, i will document such. if, on the other hand, the claims are not false, i will have to concede that the fellow has a point.

my "tactics" simply involve treating all evidences as either verified, non verified or debunked.

admittedly, i'm using the powers of induction to predict that the claims being presented will lie within the "debunked" catagory, as i've watched many 911 CT vids now, and they've all presented the same claims that are demonstratably false.

as i research the claims made in the film, i can post any debunkings i may find, or create, if you are intersted, so that you can offer counter argument. i'm always open to the possibility that i'm wrong.

but, honestly, i expect the film to fail, as every 911 CT video i've seen has relied on the same evidence pile, which is festering with dishonesty and inaccuracy.

Yeah but how exactly is this going to work?

A group of interested people turn up to watch a film highlighting important civic issues of worldwide import, and some joker at the back stands up and says "Excuse me twoofers! I have 115 points of rebuttal which I will read to you now ..."

I'd love to be there.

i'd simply stand at the entrance of the theatre, and hand out pamphlets, which would contain a list of claims made by the film, followed by proper, cited debunkings.

if the film meets my expectations, and relies on debunked claims, i'll not be spending the money to watch the film myself.
 
i'd simply stand at the entrance of the theatre, and hand out pamphlets, which would contain a list of claims made by the film, followed by proper, cited debunkings.


Remember, if any of the theatergoers try to question you, you can quickly retort with scooby's all-purpose "Oh yeah? Well, I had sex with hookers in Amsterdam!" counterargument.
 
so, quickly scanning over the "myths" presented, here's what we have:

Myth Number 1: Our political and military leaders simply would not do such a thing. - for the sake of argument, we can let him have this one. i don't care.

Myth Number 2: Our political and military leaders would have had no motive for orchestrating the 9/11 attacks. - again, for the sake of argument, we can let him have this one as well. i care about evidence, not conjecture.

Myth Number 3: Such a big operation, involving so many people, could not have been kept a secret, because someone involved in it would have talked by now. - as with the first two, while i don't agree, this isn't really much a claim. again, the argument thus far is simply trying to prove that the government *could* have carried out the 911 attacks, which is something i'm willing to consider, at the very least for the sake of argument.

Myth Number 4: The 9/11 Commission, which has endorsed the official account, was an independent, impartial commission and hence can be believed. - another watered down myth that doesn't prove anything. obviously, he ignroes the fact that the all the work of scientists in the NIST report and such is supported by virtually 100% of the scientific community, and should therefore be trusted, but he also fails to present any failings within the 9/11 commission report, which begs the question: why would we agree that the 9/11 commission report can be doubted, when we can find no instance of it failing to stand to scrutiny?

Myth Number 5: The Bush administration provided proof that the attacks were carried out by al-Qaeda terrorists under the direction of Osama bin Laden. - ahhh hah! now we have some real claims, FINALLY. from brushing through this dialogue, i can see the same, tired, debunked claims. but, this is good, because he's actually making claims, which can easlity be demonstrated to be false. his first four "myths" were mainly just speculative crap that really doesn't prove anything.

Myth Number 6: The 9/11 attacks came as a surprise to the Bush administration. - um, what? i mean, kinda, i'm sure, but the government knew the WTC buildings were the targets of terrorist plots for a long while now. hell, they'd be attacked prior to 9/11! but, at least he cites some specific claims here-- amoung them the notorious "stock put" claims.

Myth Number 7: US officials have explained why the hijacked airliners were not intercepted. - this has all been done to death. i didn't read his supporting dialogue here, but i'd be surprised if it wasn't the same old crap we've all read ten thousand times before. i glanced quickly through a few paragraphs, and it seemed that there were specific claims.

Myth Number 8: Official Reports have explained why the Twin Towers and Building 7 of the World Trade Center collapsed. - ahhhh hah! i'm saving this one. i don't want to ruin this. i want to have some good food and drink to enojy the dialogue here. i'm putting 74% confidence in the prediction that steel's melting point WILL come into play!

Myth Number 9: There is no doubt that Flight 77, under the control of al-Qaeda hijacker Hani Hanjour, struck the Pentagon. - more specific claims. excellent. these will, i'm quite certain, simple be the same crap we've all seen. this should be another instance where evidence can be summarily debunked quickly and concisely.

SO, of these nine "myths", only 5 really rely on real claims that support the 911 CT. 3 rely on conjecture, attempting to prove that a 911 CT could exist, and one attempts to argue against the fundamental problems that most understand regarding CTs involving vast numbers of participants.

i'd love to have a debunking of all nine myths, but really, i just don't care about a few of 'em at all, and generally, when i debate this stuff, i always just give motivation and oppurtunity to the CTer, so that we can just get to the real evidence.

if i don't address all nine myths, perhaps a reader might be given the impression that i was unable to address those that i did not. but if i address the myths that are rather pety, and rely completely on conjecture, the debunking may seem a bit trite and pety itself. what should i do?
 
i'd love to have a debunking of all nine myths, but really, i just don't care about a few of 'em at all, and generally, when i debate this stuff, i always just give motivation and oppurtunity to the CTer, so that we can just get to the real evidence.


The funny thing is, of the real myths with specific claims, half of them involve "Officials have proved X". This is what's so laughable. People think we believe the "official story" just because we have been told it. I honestly don't know what the "official" stance on some of these issues are. I don't care. I did my own research.

Did the US Government explain why the aircraft weren't intercepted? I have no idea. But I know EXACTLY why they weren't intercepted. I didn't sit around and wait for some official to tell me. I found out for myself.

-Gumboot
 
SO, fun times! my quant little town has a TROOF GROUP. yeah! and, lo and behold, they have announced that they will be showing "9/11 — The Myth & the Reality" in a local theatre in one week.

so, fellow debukers, because my time is somewhat limited, i was hoping i could get a few of you to help me debunk this thing completely within one week. as it's griffin, i'm sure it's just the regular debunked crap, so it shouldn't really take that much time.

if i can get a good debunking ready, in a simple format:

[TIME] CLAIM
DEBUNK
sources

then i'll happily make dozens of coppies, and distruibute 'em at the entrance of the movie house.

anyone interested? for those that don't know, chico is a university town, and these kids-- ok, i'm still a stundent-- seem especially proned to getting sucked into this crap. i wanna do what i can to counter the insanity.

thanks all,
anthony.

This thread is disturbing. People, help me debunk something I haven't seen, and that none of you have seen either, because it's junk!

(Sounds like the way the Christian conservatives handled the release of The Last Temptation of Christ).
 
The myth 9 about the terrorist pilot. Any kid off the street could have flown the maneuvers done on 9/11. Hitting a building is easy. I have 33 years of flying experience in supersonic jets and heavy jets. I have flown the 707 equal in the air force.
If hitting a building is so easy, then how many buildings did you hit in your 33 years as a pilot?

Answer that, flyboy!
 
This thread is disturbing. People, help me debunk something I haven't seen, and that none of you have seen either, because it's junk!

(Sounds like the way the Christian conservatives handled the release of The Last Temptation of Christ).
Allow me to refer you to post #26. Correct me of I'm wrong, but he seems to be in the process of looking at Griffin's actual arguments!
 
This thread is disturbing. People, help me debunk something I haven't seen, and that none of you have seen either, because it's junk!

Its closer to not falling for the same practical joke for the umpteenth time. None of the troother films have produced anything resembling evidence to date and saying 'This time for sure!' isn't going to get much more of a reaction.

Even so, we'll still get around to it.
 
Its closer to not falling for the same practical joke for the umpteenth time. None of the troother films have produced anything resembling evidence to date and saying 'This time for sure!' isn't going to get much more of a reaction.

Even so, we'll still get around to it.

Why bother? Why not just let Twoofers have their little hobby? What harm can come of it?
 
Are you truthers challenged to find facts and why do you always lie with your labeling?

You should have said, "...watch a film full of lies and false information about 9/11 from a liar."

How are CTers so consistently wrong about everything 9/11?

Is there a special 9/11 school for nuts and dolts? Did you get your degree at that school Pdoh?

See call me a good old fashioned skeptic - but I thought this judgement would be up to the people watching the film - one for them to make for themselves?
 
See call me a good old fashioned skeptic - but I thought this judgement would be up to the people watching the film - one for them to make for themselves?
Explain your disagreement with providing a convenient source of fact-based rebuttals to Griffin's argument.
 
I'm confused. Are you citing those posts as evidence that OMGturt1es is NOT examining Griffin's claims?

:confused:

No, I', making a point that it is dangerous to go about things the way post #1 lays it out.

Basically saying "I know this is crap, so help me out; hand me the debunk."
 

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