• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

9/11 — The Myth & the Reality

OMGturt1es

Graduate Poster
OMGturt1es
Joined
Aug 14, 2005
Messages
1,028
Location
Elk Grove, California.
SO, fun times! my quant little town has a TROOF GROUP. yeah! and, lo and behold, they have announced that they will be showing "9/11 — The Myth & the Reality" in a local theatre in one week.

so, fellow debukers, because my time is somewhat limited, i was hoping i could get a few of you to help me debunk this thing completely within one week. as it's griffin, i'm sure it's just the regular debunked crap, so it shouldn't really take that much time.

if i can get a good debunking ready, in a simple format:

[TIME] CLAIM
DEBUNK
sources

then i'll happily make dozens of coppies, and distruibute 'em at the entrance of the movie house.

anyone interested? for those that don't know, chico is a university town, and these kids-- ok, i'm still a stundent-- seem especially proned to getting sucked into this crap. i wanna do what i can to counter the insanity.

thanks all,
anthony.
 
Good plan, omgturtles. I haven't seen the movie, though. Have you got a link, perhaps?
 
Ah, so you request that we review an unwatchable video. Feeling particularly sadistic today, The Inscrutable Doctor turt1es? :p

Assuming this video doesn't present any novel arguments, the easiest thing to do is to print up some flyers for moviegoers that list links to accurate sources of 9/11 information. I'll be glad to provide such a list if you like. There's no sense in you wasting time rebutting claims that have been thoroughly trashed.

Actually, the easiest thing to do is drink enough beer that you forget about the video entirely. Don't dismiss that option.
 
Gravy said:
Actually, the easiest thing to do is drink enough beer that you forget about the video entirely. Don't dismiss that option.
Click to expand...


This is particularly good advice, and I commend it to you.
 
sleahead said:
Rather than spend time watching Griffin, it would be better to work from a transcript, which can be found here:
Click to expand...
Oh, that speech? It's got one of my personal favourite deceptions, because I never saw it coming. Griffin tells us, in defence of the idea that interceptions were routine and speedy:

But an Air Traffic Control document put out in 1998 warned pilots that any airplanes persisting in unusual behavior "will likely find two [jet fighters] on their tail within 10 or so minutes."52
Click to expand...

But the document is actually talking about a different situation:

The U.S. military has their own network of radars looking over the U.S. borders, and out over the ocean (NORAD). They are tied into the FAA computer to be able to get information on incoming flights from overseas, but if they see a target over international waters headed toward the U.S., without flight plan information, they will call on the "shout" line to the appropriate Center sector for an ID. Sector 66 might get a call to ID a radar target, and if 66 has no datablock or other information on it, the military will usually scramble an intercept flight. Essentially always they turn out to be private pilots ("VFR") not talking to anybody, who stray too far outside the boundary, then get picked up on their way back in. But, procedures are procedures, and they will likely find two F-18's on their tail within 10 or so minutes.
http://www.xavius.com/080198.htm
Click to expand...

Hmm, Griffin's actually found a document illustrating something he says isn't true, that NORAD primarily looked outwards. Oddly he "forgot" to tell us that.

Better still, while DRG calls this an "Air Traffic Control" document to make it sound official, it's actually just the documentation for a PC simulation game called Air Traffic Control Center. Doesn't carry quite the same weight when you know that, somehow.
 
MikeW said:
Oh, that speech? It's got one of my personal favourite deceptions, because I never saw it coming. Griffin tells us, in defence of the idea that interceptions were routine and speedy:



But the document is actually talking about a different situation:



Hmm, Griffin's actually found a document illustrating something he says isn't true, that NORAD primarily looked outwards. Oddly he "forgot" to tell us that.

Better still, while DRG calls this an "Air Traffic Control" document to make it sound official, it's actually just the documentation for a PC simulation game called Air Traffic Control Center. Doesn't carry quite the same weight when you know that, somehow.
Click to expand...

Mike,
That's frakkin' hysterical! Griffin is pulling "documentary evidence" from a computer game?
 
MikeW said:
Better still, while DRG calls this an "Air Traffic Control" document to make it sound official, it's actually just the documentation for a PC simulation game called Air Traffic Control Center. Doesn't carry quite the same weight when you know that, somehow.
Click to expand...

Wow. Good stuff, DRG. And I note that he conceals the deception by quoting his own book as the source!
 
Foolmewunz said:
Mike,
That's frakkin' hysterical! Griffin is pulling "documentary evidence" from a computer game?
Click to expand...
Good, isn't it? :D Nafeez Ahmed used it as well so I guess he got it from there. I'm not quite sure whether DRG realised what it was and covered it up, or was so lazy he never bothered to check out the link, but either way it's very deceptive.
 
sleahead said:
Rather than spend time watching Griffin, it would be better to work from a transcript, which can be found here:

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060405112622982

It is indeed the usual nonsense and so the beer option looks more and more appropriate.
Click to expand...

oh, thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaank you soooooooooooo much. that's going to remove at least 4 hours of complete boredom from my life.

gravy, all i really need is a list of his arguments. i'm guessing 95% of 'em are ones that i've already debunked, and have already been debunked by 3253251235312 other people. i think it'd be best to have some flier that warns people of his specific lies ahead of time, so that the viewers never have the chance to think that he makes a strong case.

then again, i may be gone during this showing. i need to find out exactly what my plans will be.

and yeah, i think i may need a lot more beer to get through this, even if i can get by without watching the video. this stuff makes my head hurt.

take care all,
anthony.
 
I'll see what I can do about the NIST related arguments turtle man. DRG's old crap about how the NCSTAR is false, misleading and such is largely derived from strawmen, misquotes or complete fabrications.

It occurs to me that DRG may be trying to preach to soft audiences. College students are not necessarily educated on all of the events and theories behind 9/11, and many of them have yet to be exposed to this kind of garbage.
 
OMGturt1es said:
SO, fun times! my quant little town has a TROOF GROUP. yeah! and, lo and behold, they have announced that they will be showing "9/11 — The Myth & the Reality" in a local theatre in one week.

so, fellow debukers, because my time is somewhat limited, i was hoping i could get a few of you to help me debunk this thing completely within one week. as it's griffin, i'm sure it's just the regular debunked crap, so it shouldn't really take that much time.

if i can get a good debunking ready, in a simple format:

[TIME] CLAIM
DEBUNK
sources

then i'll happily make dozens of coppies, and distruibute 'em at the entrance of the movie house.

anyone interested? for those that don't know, chico is a university town, and these kids-- ok, i'm still a stundent-- seem especially proned to getting sucked into this crap. i wanna do what i can to counter the insanity.

thanks all,
anthony.
Click to expand...

Ha ha - good luck, Bush twoofer.
 
OMGturt1es said:
here you go!

PART ONE:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2ADP0mjX9tY

PART TWO:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=tKMRKSw2Hrs

quite boring thus far, actually. unfortunantly, i was forced into drinking a few beers, partially due to the boring nature of these videos. i don't think i have it in me to finish watching this crap tonite. i just can't do it.
Click to expand...
The myth 9 about the terrorist pilot. Any kid off the street could have flown the maneuvers done on 9/11. Hitting a building is easy. I have 33 years of flying experience in supersonic jets and heavy jets. I have flown the 707 equal in the air force. I have talked to many pilots, some of them 767/757 pilots. We all agree 9/11 flying was simple stuff. Throw in the fact the terrorist pilots all had FAA license to fly and they studied the systems of the planes they hijacked. This is why they knew how to turn off the transponders and how to set the Navigation frequencies to find the DC area. The little box they could tune in the radio beacon at the airport next to the Pentagon and see how far and an arrow pointing to the exact position, just head for the arrow and you are there. Griffins flying junk is that, total junk.

Remember the instructor that turned down Hanjour from renting a Cessna, also said he would have no problem flying and hitting a building. Believe it or not I think flying the Cessna is harder than the jet. What the instructor did was refuse to let the terrorist rent the plane based on the flight he had with Hanjour. After a few flight or some more training they may have let him rent the plane. This could happen to a real pilot. Griffin will tell them the terrorist was not allowed to rent a plane but not that the same instructor said flying into the Pentagon was in the terrorist capabilities. This Is Super Debunked! The flying was easy!: if you have a clear day and great weather. If there had been clouds that day these idiot pilots would have failed. The things they did required clear weather.

I think you should save your time. Anyone who believes the stuff Griffin says deserves to be that dumb and act on it. I watched the video and I could not believe anything he said.

I think some people may fall for the NORAD stuff since it is hard to explain all the intercepts took place over the Ocean. And the rest of the claims about NORAD are based on concepts Griffin did not mention. I have to see if he mentions Payne Stewart's interception which took 80 minutes not 20 minutes. I do not know of any NORAD plans to shot down airliners ever. 9/11 was a surprise attack, and Griffin is a just a Bush hater, so those inclined to hope Bush did it will gladly be lemmings with Griffin passing out the Kool-Aid. It is hard to talk to those who have drank the Kool-Aid like Scooby, Pagan, TS1234, et al.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom