9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[9/11-investigator]

So one of your problems with the Holocaust is logistics ?

Yes. Where are the remains?

Haven't we done this already ?

No. Just 1 picture from inside the deathcamp (Krema V/Auschwitz):

http://www.holocaust-uddannelse.dk/images/billeder/auschwitz-birkenau02.jpg

And here is the debunking of that (obviously doctored) photo:
http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/WalendyA-krema3.jpg

There is no other photo known from inside from one of the 6 'death camps' that shows any homicidal activity.

Not on the American continent, you don't. It's not my fault if you have stupid laws. For the record I disagree with laws that put you in jail for your opinion, no matter how outlandish.

I agree. It is outlandish and in the end harmful for the holocaustians, because the holocaust now becomes interesting. Forbidden fruits and stuff.

 

[9/11-investigator]

9/11, I mentioned as a qualification that I married into a European family of mixed nationalities, Russian, Latvian, and Ukrainian. I also mentioned that I was a coloured guy and that the oldies in this family who lived through the war discussed their experiences with me to a depth that they dare not tell their own children (one of which I married). As I said I judge these revelations to be credible and that conclusion comes about because of the age of the people at the time (most have passed now), the negative and self deprecating nature of the disclosures, and the fact that they waited almost 30 years to reveal anything to me. So on that basis I can tell you that they all loathed Beria, and lived in fear of his secret police and web of informants. They always refered to him as the "Jew Beria" it was common knowledge to the population of the time. Whether it is fact or not who can be certain. The only basis for plausability is that the region he was born in has a strong Jewish cultural history...see link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Abkhazia

There is more: http://www.pgorg.com/russianholocaust.html

Photo: http://press.princeton.edu/images/k5279.gif

9/11 there is a point to be made here in regard to this Wiki quote. Before you utilized it I quoted it in a response to Mathew who was denying that Marx was Jewish. He did not respond to it because he is supressing reality to fit his arguments and that is transparent and unproductive. But he accuses you of exactly the same behaviour (supressing reality) as he exhibits. I will say though the Wiki bit you used is the same as mine except you left out the last line which states "he was baptized in the Evangelical Established Church. Karl was baptized when he was six years old"...... I would still consider him Jewish.
Tailoring quotes to fit the argument is as I said transparent and unproductive

Just like you I consider him Jewish due to his heritage. Some sprinkling of water at the age of 6 does not change that.

They were gassing and injecting poison into the mentally ill and deformed before they hooked into the Jews and Gypsies. They only stopped because the families of the murdered complained to the church...of course they gassed people.
http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/timeline/euthanasia.htm

I am aware of the euthanasia program of the Nazis and that it stopped after complaints from the population. Nazi-Germany is not very high on my list of favorite societies. Only Jewish installed communism was worse, far worse.

Mathew is not Mr Know it all, he didn't know that Marx was a Jew. We can all go the web and get differing opinions on the holocaust but my advice to all who are interested in this fascinating and macabre snapshot of human nature is to seek out the few people left who lived through it and those who were in Europe directly after it for their time left to testify is at it's end......and all we have then is the web.

Calling Matthew 'Mr Know-All' was ironic. I think Matthew is clever enough to know that Marx was a Jew. He was just trying to categorize him as a German and speculating that he might get away with it. Matthew is not very fond of Germans.

 

[9/11-investigator]

I will give 9/11 Investigator credit for proving one thing beyond a shadow of a doubt:
That he is Big Time Anti Semite,who has a diseased hatred of the Jews.

Tell me dudalb, is it personal?

 

[9/11-investigator]

Since Matthey markets himself as a Treblinka expert here some material on Treblinka:

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p133_Allen.html

Some interesting quotes from that article:

Treblinka is widely regarded as the second most important German wartime extermination center. Only Auschwitz-Birkenau is supposed to have claimed more lives.

There is no documentary evidence that Treblinka was an extermination center. In fact, contemporary records suggest that the camp had a very different function.

Aerial reconnaissance photographs taken in 1944 of the Treblinka "death camp" site -- and forgotten for almost 45 years in the National Archives in Washington, DC -- cast serious doubts on the widely accepted story that it was a mass extermination center.

Discovered in 1989, and published here for the first time in the United States, these German reconnaissance photos corroborate other evidence indicating that Treblinka was actually a transit camp.

These photographs indicate that the remarkably small camp was not isolated, or even particularly well guarded. (They clearly show that fields where Polish farmers planted and cultivated crops were directly adjacent to the camp perimeter.)

Moreover, the camp's burial area quite obviously appears too small to contain the hundreds of thousands of bodies supposedly buried there. (Casting doubt on the widely accepted story of hundreds of thousands of Treblinka victims, these photos suggest instead that only those deportees who died during the sometimes protracted rail journey to the camp were buried there.)

The generally accepted story today is that hundreds of thousands of Jews were killed at Treblinka in gas chambers with poisonous exhaust from engines. But the "original" Treblinka extermination story was that Jews were steamed to death there in "steam chambers."

According to an "eyewitness" account received in November 1942 in London from the Warsaw ghetto underground organization, Jews were exterminated in "death rooms" at Treblinka with "steam coming out of the numerous holes in the pipes." (note 5) In August 1943, the New York Times reported that two million Jews had already been killed at Treblinka by steaming them to death. (note 6)

Shortly after the war, the World Jewish Congress published The Black Book, a 559-page volume of real and imagined wartime atrocities against Jews. At Treblinka alone, the book alleges, three million persons were killed.

Solid evidence for gassings at Treblinka has proven to be very elusive. For example, it turned out that none of the witnesses in the 1951 West German "Treblinka" court case ever actually saw anyone being gassed.

And then for Matthew:

German railway records have been cited as evidence that hundreds of thousands of Jews were exterminated at Treblinka. (note 41) While there is little doubt that these documents are genuine, and that they confirm transports of Jews to Treblinka, they are not proof of an extermination program. (note 42)

If Treblinka was not an extermination center, what was it? As already mentioned, the balance of evidence indicates that Treblinka II -- along with Belzec and Sobibor -- was a transit camp, where Jewish deportees were stripped of their property and valuables before being transferred eastwards into German-occupied Soviet territories.

The generally-accepted story is that Treblinka II was a "pure" extermination center, from which no Jew was permitted to leave alive. (note 44) However, credible reports of deportations of Jews from Treblinka refute the allegation that all Jews sent there were destined for extermination, and indicate instead that the camp functioned as a transit center.

Letters and postcards that arrived in the Warsaw ghetto from Jews who, by all accounts, had been deported to Treblinka, indicate that the camp was a transit center from where Jews were resettled in the occupied Soviet territories. These messages, which arrived from settlements and camps in Belarus (Byelorussia), Ukraine, and even Russia proper (near Smolensk), were written by Jews who had been deported in 1942. Some letters and cards had been sent by mail and some had arrived through the underground. Many mentioned that the senders were working hard, but confirmed that they (and often their children) were being fed.

Completely contrary to its supposed character as a top secret extermination center, Treblinka was neither secret nor even closely guarded, as both former inmates and officials have confirmed. "Secrecy? Good heavens, there was no secrecy about Treblinka," Jewish prisoner Richard Glazer later testified. "All the Poles between there and Warsaw must have known about it, and lived off the proceeds. All the peasants came to barter, the Warsaw whores did business with the Ukrainians -- it was a circus for all of them." Polish farmers worked the fields that directly adjoined the camp. "And many others," said Jewish survivor Berek Rojzman, "came to the fence to barter, mostly with the Ukrainians, but with us too."

 

[Nonpareil]

Motive maybe, means to kill: yes. But dispossing of millions of bodies unnoticed is a different question altogether.

Hardly "unnoticed".

Source.

No we don't. And again let this sink in: I mean pictures from the alleged mass killings in the millions scale in these so-called death camps. I am not talking about pictures of atrocities that exist in abundance or the horrible pictures of Belsen.

Okay. Let me get this straight. You demand photographic evidence of the Holocaust, but you won't accept photographic evidence of the Holocaust?

The other historians are in jail. Nobody likes to go to jail, so everybody knows he has to shut up, otherwise...

Again, you show how very little you know of America. No one can be jailed for their opinions here. It may be different in your country, but that's not our problem. Over here, anyone can question the Holocaust if they want to. It's just that most people realize that there's no point, as the evidence is entirely against them.

You should not assume things about my knowledge. Peter spent a year in the Netherlands to acquire knowledge about how to build an advanced society at home. He is well-known here. Russia for centuries had a Germanic ruling class and a Slav underclass.

So is this an admission of Matthew's victory on this issue? Earlier you asked why Peter would admit Germans into the country. Now you're saying that Peter is German, like Matthew said. You're contradicting yourself.

Compare it to the Jewish class in the US of today ruling over the descendants of the lower classes of Europe ('huddled masses').

Again, you know nothing about America.

It's extremely silly to derive one's identity from sparkling some water over a kid's face at the age of six. Decisive is his ancestry from a family of Rabbi's no less. He is as Jewish as you can get. It's again the eternal discussion about the Jews being a religion or an ethnicity. The latter trumps the first.

So you consider Jews to be a race rather than a religion? Even if you DO think that, all you're doing here is showing how much of a prejudiced bigot you are. Attacking the Jewish people has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the Holocaust events, so I suggest that you stop. You're only making a bigger fool of yourself than you already have.

In Spain of the Inquisition you had lot's of Marano's, 'converted' Jews. Nevertheless, they secretly adhered to their identity. I am Dutch by blood. I could decide to become a Jew or a muslim, nevertheless I would remain Dutch for the rest of my life, in character, appearance, customs, heritage.

Bare assertion. You have no idea whether or not any given person is or is not faking conversion. And again, this has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the Holocaust, so you may as well leave it be.

I would assume that keep their KZ garments.

I assume that "KZ garments" are the clothes given to them at the camps. Even if they are, you still have to address the issue of the documentation of Jewish prisoners and why their movements don't show up on any of the German documents.

Are you suggesting that Treblinka was the only 'death camp'?

No. Nice way to attempt another derail, though, as well as to strawman.

Oh please, not again. We discussed this earlier in the thread. Look it up using google.

All right, I looked it up. All I found were more attempts by you to completely derail the issue. At no point did you comment on that speech. Instead, you went on about "nobody denies that Himmler was not a nice guy. Revisionists admit that Jews were rounded up and machine-gunned into pits" - which also doesn't help your case, by the way. The fact remains that you have never actually refuted the fact that Himmler specifically stated that the Jews were to be exterminated.

Quit a statement. Maybe Hitler was forced into this war. Maybe he did not want a World War, but just Danzig. He certainly did not want war with England and France.

The guy that invaded France and Poland didn't want a war?

I have some doubts about your level of understanding:
http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/ar/labour camps/arclabourcamps.html
This is about Treblinka:

The area containing the prisoners was divided into three sections: One section contained a kitchen, stoves and sewing shops. The Jewish prisoners who were artisans lived there along with Jewish tailors, barbers, stove workers and drivers. They were dressed in civilian clothes , each wore their own clothes. In the next section the Jews who were used for forced labour were lived. They were dressed in striped uniform and they wore wooden shoes on their feet. I do not know if there were skilled labourers among these Jews, who had a speciality. They were sent to work in the sand pit where they hauled sand, they were also taken to work in the forest removing tree stumps. The sand from the sand pit was sent off in the direction of the Malkinia station. In the third section of the camp were kept the Polish prisoners. As a rule the Poles were used for auxiliary work in the camp – they were dressed in civilian clothes, like the Jewish skilled workers. I do not know if their food was on the same level as that of the other prisoners.

I have doubts about your understanding, 9/11-investigator. Your posting of this information only weakens your own case. The Jews were clothed in prison uniforms, which would explain where the clothing documented came from.

Warsaw uprising was an event where 16,000 Germans were killed. I am not going to argue about repraisels from that event. I am investigating the alleged murder of millions of innocent people like Anne Frank.

Wow, nice strawman. Again.

The debunking of the suggested linking between trainloads of old clothes and mass murder.

Which happened... where?

No. Just 1 picture from inside the deathcamp (Krema V/Auschwitz):

http://www.holocaust-uddannelse.dk/images/billeder/auschwitz-birkenau02.jpg

And here is the debunking of that photo:
http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/WalendyA-krema3.jpg

1) Not a debunking
2) There are many other photos

I agree. It is outlandish and in the end harmful for the holocaustians, because the holocaust now becomes interesting. Forbidden fruits and stuff.

This would be true if the Holocaust deniers actually had any evidence to support their contentions. They don't, so it isn't.

Just like you I consider him Jewish due to his heritage. Some sprinkling of water at the age of 6 does not change that.

So either you're incredibly prejudiced against the Jewish people (which has been shown to be true before) or you don't believe that there has been a single conversion from one religion to another in all of history.

I am aware of the euthanasia program of the Nazis and that it stopped after complaints from the population. Nazi-Germany is not very high on my list of favorite societies. Only Jewish installed communism was worse, far worse.

There was no "Jewish-installed Communism". And no, it didn't stop.

Calling Matthew 'Mr Know-All' was ironic. I think Matthew is clever enough to know that Marx was a Jew. He was just trying to categorize him as a German and speculating that he might get away with it. Matthew is not very fond of Germans.

HA! Projecting much?

 

[Nonpareil]

<snip>

So does this article offer any sources?

 

[9/11-investigator]

In contrast with what many people think, the Germans kept a register of people who died in Auschwitz.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p265_Weber.html

This registry was confiscated by the Soviets in 1945 and it remained in Soviet archives until 1989. They paint a picture rather different from the usual extermination story. Some quote's:

Over the years, Holocaust historians and standard Holocaust studies have consistently maintained that Jewish prisoners who arrived at Auschwitz between the spring of 1942 and the fall of 1944, and who were not able to work, were immediately put to death. Consistent with the alleged German program to exterminate Europe's Jews, only able-bodied Jews who could be "worked to death" were temporarily spared from the gas chambers. Holocaust historians also agree that no records were kept of the deaths of the Jews who were summarily killed in the camp's gas chambers because they were too old, too young or otherwise unable to work.

They remained inaccessible in Soviet archives until 1989, when officials in Moscow announced that they held 46 of the volumes, recording the deaths of 69,000 Auschwitz inmates.

These 46 volumes partially cover the years 1941, 1942 and 1943. There are just two or three volumes for the year 1941, and none at all for the years 1944 or 1945.

the IHR recently obtained copies of 127 of the death certificates

Consistent with the Sterbebuch records, other German wartime documents show that a very high percentage of the Jewish inmates at Auschwitz were not able to work, and were nevertheless not killed.

For example, an internal German telex message dated September 4, 1943, from the chief of the Labor Allocation department of the SS Economic and Administrative Main Office (WVHA), reported that of 25,000 Jewish inmates in Auschwitz, only 3,581 were able to work. All of the remaining Jewish inmates — some 21,500, or about 86 percent — were unable to work.

This is also confirmed in a secret report dated April 5, 1944, on "security measures in Auschwitz" by Oswald Pohl, head of the WVHA agency responsible for the concentration camp system, to SS chief Heinrich Himmler. Pohl reported that there was a total of 67,000 inmates in the Auschwitz camp complex, of whom 18,000 were hospitalized or disabled. In the Auschwitz II camp (Birkenau), supposedly the main extermination center, there were 36,000 inmates, mostly female, of whom "approximately 15,000 are unable to work."

The evidence shows that Auschwitz-Birkenau was, in fact, established primarily as a camp for Jews who were not able to work, including the sick and elderly, as well as for others temporarily awaiting assignment to other camps.

The Frank family was deported to Auschwitz first and later relocated to Bergen-Belsen.

 

[9/11-investigator]

Hardly "unnoticed".

[qimg]http://www.holocaust.com.au/lb/images/liberation_campspic.gif[/qimg]

Source.

Okay. Let me get this straight. You demand photographic evidence of the Holocaust, but you won't accept photographic evidence of the Holocaust?

I have noted that you are not the smartest around here (you once opined that Germany invaded Poland because of hatred of the Soviet or something of that nature). What you show is a picture of Dachau. Nobody nowdays claims anymore that Dachau ever was an extermination camp. These people clearly died from starvation and/or sickness, not from 'gassings'. You have no idea what you are talking about.

All right, I looked it up. All I found were more attempts by you to completely derail the issue. At no point did you comment on that speech. Instead, you went on about "nobody denies that Himmler was not a nice guy. Revisionists admit that Jews were rounded up and machine-gunned into pits" - which also doesn't help your case, by the way. The fact remains that you have never actually refuted the fact that Himmler specifically stated that the Jews were to be exterminated.

I said more than that. Again, the death camps is the issue here, not the shooting of partisans at the eastern front. You do know what a partisan is, I hope? Someone who wants to kill Germans.

The guy that invaded France and Poland didn't want a war?

It was France and Britain that declared war on Germany after Germany invaded into lands that was taken from them in Versailles. Britain was preparing to invade Norway in order to cut of vital supplies of iron to Germany.

I have doubts about your understanding, 9/11-investigator. Your posting of this information only weakens your own case. The Jews were clothed in prison uniforms, which would explain where the clothing documented came from.

No, you don't understand. Matthew wanted to suggest that the clothes were taken from dead inmates. My point is that the inmates received simple uniform prison clothes. The original clothes were send to the east.

1) Not a debunking
2) There are many other photos

Show them then. And don't come again with your silly idea of posting 'google holocaust' in image mode. Show me pictures that prove/indicate that there was a systematic murder going on in the 'death camps' in the order of thousands a day as the official story wants to have it.

 

[Uzzy]

Look, I know you have some mad desire to convince us that Poland doesn't have a right to exist, but would you please stop bringing it up? It's quite a distraction. Poland's had a long history as an independent state, and the Second Polish Republic was entirely legitimate. The idea of national self determination was quite a profound one, and the Poles made it quite clear they were not willing to be ruled by the Russians, Swedes, Germans or any other state throughout the 1800's and 1900's, through a lengthy series of rebellions.

Not that it matters anyway, given that Germany attacked Poland to conquer the country in order to get Lebensraum, not just to 'reclaim lost land', as you so constantly claim. If anything, the Czech experience should have taught other countries exactly what Hitler meant by reclaiming lost land.

 

[Nonpareil]

I have noted that you are not the smartest around here (you once opined that Germany invaded Poland because of hatred of the Soviet or something of that nature).

Which I admitted my fault on, and has no bearing on the situation whatsoever, so I would appreciate that you stop with the ad hominems and the strawmans, lest my own opinion of your intelligence drop even further.

What you show is a picture of Dachau. Nobody nowdays claims anymore that Dachau ever was an extermination camp. These people clearly died from starvation and/or sickness, not from 'gassings'. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Ha! No. Sorry, there were gassings at Dachau. So it is you who has no idea what you're talking about. Please, stop and do some research before you try to insult me again.

I said more than that. Again, the death camps is the issue here, not the shooting of partisans at the eastern front. You do know what a partisan is, I hope? Someone who wants to kill Germans.

Main Entry: par·ti·san
Variant(s): also par·ti·zan \ˈpär-tə-zən, -sən, -ˌzan, chiefly British ˌpär-tə-ˈzan\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle French partisan, from north Italian dial. partiźan, from part part, party, from Latin part-, pars part
Date: 1555

1 : a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person; especially : one exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance
2 a : a member of a body of detached light troops making forays and harassing an enemy b : a member of a guerrilla band operating within enemy lines

Stop making up definitions for words. Himmler was clearly speaking about the extermination of the Jewish people.

It was France and Britain that declared war on Germany after Germany invaded into lands that was taken from them in Versailles.

So? Germany invaded Poland and France. Their motives for doing so are moot. The fact remains that this was an unprovoked act of war.

Britain was preparing to invade Norway in order to cut of vital supplies of iron to Germany.

I can't find any evidence for this. Source? And even if it is true, IT HAS NO BEARING ON WHETHER OR NOT THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED.

No, you don't understand. Matthew wanted to suggest that the clothes were taken from dead inmates. My point is that the inmates became simple uniform prison clothes. The original clothes were send to the east.

No, you don't understand. Matthew never stated that all the clothing belonged to dead inmates of the concentration camps. The live prisoners also had their clothes taken. But the number of live prisoners plus the number of those who died from disease and starvation does not equal the total number of clothes found. The difference between the total number of clothes and the number accounted for is filled by the number of Jews gassed/shot/executed in other fashions in the camps.

Show them then. And don't come again with your silly idea of posting 'google holocaust' in image mode. Show me pictures that prove/indicate that there was a systematic murder going on in the 'death camps' in the order of thousands a day as the official story wants to have it.

Again, you ask for photographs but will not accept photographs. You are simply denying facts now.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Mathew lets not run supposition into our discussion unless clearly identified as such. The pemise that the expectation of the detractors of the Jews when identifying whether a Jew is a Jew being based on the religious values that person may hold is false for the majority of anti semites. I example this by the overwhelming number of Jewish converts during the Weimar Republic. These folks wanted to be accepted, they changed their religions and their names, but they were only twenty short years later identified as Jews, rounded up and slaughtered. Accept what I said and qualified for what it is, and given we are talking about Marx, for all intents and purposes in this discussion he is seen as a Jew...9/11 exampled that, and he was correct.

1) The "second mention" laws in Nazi Germany had nothing to do with "choice". Individual Jews in Germany could not just say "Oh I'm no longer jewish". It is silly to apply those laws to Karl Marx's period of time.

2) Karl Marx was baptised christian, baptised by his parents. Karl Marx then discarded all religion in Das Kapital. People who think Karl Marx is a "jew" are reaching back to his grandparent's belief, ignoring the christian part and ignoring what Karl Marx said himself in Das Kapital. Don't you think these people may be a bit silly. 9/11-investigator is not correct. 9/11 is thinks Karl Marx is simultaneously a "jewish, non-jewish christian, anti-religious communist" at the same time. He should only concern himself with what Karl Marx wrote.

Mathew if you do not understand the concept of face to face testimony in comparison to the endless manipulation and editng techniques available to the thusly talented then I can not explain the individual worths of the two forms of testimony to you any further.

In court we use affidavits rather than face to face testimony. Face to face testimony is only required if the testimony requires rebutal. Affidavits are extremely good evidence. However so are documents, signitures, forensic evidence, forensic econometrics, artifact evidence etc. The court makes its decision on all evidence. My point was that the web is almost useless and is not the only alternative to eyewitnesses.

 

[Kurse]

Quit a statement. Maybe Hitler was forced into this war. Maybe he did not want a World War, but just Danzig. He certainly did not want war with England and France.

Maybe he should have thought about that before he attacked some one with a Defensive Pact. If he did not know there was one then yes, he was a fool.

Warsaw uprising was an event where 16,000 Germans were killed. I am not going to argue about repraisels from that event. I am investigating the alleged murder of millions of innocent people like Anne Frank.

So Anne Frank never died? =/

Matthew is not very fond of Germans.

And you're obviously not fond of Jews. Pot calling the kettle black, huh?

Yes. Where are the remains?

I think the ground might have them =/. At least thats where I would look . (<--smart ass)

No. Just 1 picture from inside the deathcamp (Krema V/Auschwitz):

http://www.holocaust-uddannelse.dk/images/billeder/auschwitz-birkenau02.jpg

And here is the debunking of that (obviously doctored) photo:
http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/WalendyA-krema3.jpg

Okay, being an artist myself, and taking classes in Media Arts, I can definitely tell that these are not the same picture >_>. Aside from the fact that the positioning is different, the photograph's values are intensified. Possible tampering >_>. Live up to your words and show something believable, because this second picture is obviously more wrong than your stance in this debate =P.

Debunk failed.

There is no other photo known from inside from one of the 6 'death camps' that shows any homicidal activity.

I kinda want to see a picture of an S.S. Officier being nice to a Jew now =/. At the time of the Holocaust of course. You know, the one that happened during World War II?

 

[Doctor Evil]

2) Karl Marx was baptised christian, baptised by his parents. Karl Marx then discarded all religion in Das Kapital. People who think Karl Marx is a "jew" are reaching back to his grandparent's belief, ignoring the christian part and ignoring what Karl Marx said himself in Das Kapital. Don't you think these people may be a bit silly. 9/11-investigator is not correct. 9/11 is thinks Karl Marx is simultaneously a "jewish, non-jewish christian, anti-religious communist" at the same time. He should only concern himself with what Karl Marx wrote.

If I may nitpick, I think you will find that many of the people claiming that Marx was a Jew have no interest in his beliefs or self identification. (Which are, IMO the crucial aspect). I am adding self identification as there is a Jewish religion, but there is also a Jewish people, and they are intertwined by the atypical history of Jews. One can be a non-religious Jew, in the sense that he sees himself as a part of the Jewish people. Anyway, this is not relevant to Marx, and I am digressing.

Once we removed these aspects, the claim that Marx was a Jew is based on the fact that his grandparents were, as you stated. To put it differently, on his genes rather than what he considered himself to be. This is a racist claim. It is not surprising then that the Marx-was-a-Jew-claim is common in racist circles.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Matthew is not very fond of Germans.

I had a lovely lunch of Pigsknuckles and rostti with my German business partner at Una's for the end of the Octoberfest festival. We both lmet in Munich. However, my father, who speaks German, was stationed in Vienna so my family lived there in the 70's. I never once thought of my friends there as "Germans" but just different people.

 

[Kurse]

You do know what a partisan is, I hope? Someone who wants to kill Germans.

partisan literally means organized into political parties.
Smart.

It was France and Britain that declared war on Germany

Once again, Defensive Pact.

 

[Nonpareil]

Okay, being an artist myself, and taking classes in Media Arts, I can definitely tell that these are not the same picture >_>. Aside from the fact that the positioning is different, the photograph's values are intensified. Possible tampering >_>. Live up to your words and show something believable, because this second picture is obviously more wrong than your stance in this debate =P.

Debunk failed.

Well, I'm not taking any art classes, but I also can't see how that enlarged portion of the photograph proves it a fake. It's just an enlarged portion of the picture. 9/11, care to point out exactly what it is that you think is wrong with that piece of the picture?

 

[Matthew Ellard]

And then for Matthew:

German railway records have been cited as evidence that hundreds of thousands of Jews were exterminated at Treblinka. (note 41) While there is little doubt that these documents are genuine, and that they confirm transports of Jews to Treblinka, they are not proof of an extermination program. (note 42)

Well you have now confirmed my statement that IHR and CODOH are very aware of the "one way trips" evidence to Treblinka. So where do you think the 870,000 people went after Treblinka? What "research" has these organisations done to locate these 870,000 people? Why do you think they took their clothes off in the middle of a transit station if they were continuing on? Why were 15 SS officers and 56 "hiwis" stationed at Treblinka for the clearing up operation if there was nothing there to clear up? Why did the germans destroy the false rail station used for storing clothes when the Red Army approached?

Completely contrary to its supposed character as a top secret extermination center, Treblinka was neither secret nor even closely guarded, as both former inmates and officials have confirmed. "Secrecy? Good heavens, there was no secrecy about Treblinka," Jewish prisoner Richard Glazer later testified. "All the Poles between there and Warsaw must have known about it, and lived off the proceeds. All the peasants came to barter, the Warsaw whores did business with the Ukrainians -- it was a circus for all of them." Polish farmers worked the fields that directly adjoined the camp. "And many others," said Jewish survivor Berek Rojzman, "came to the fence to barter, mostly with the Ukrainians, but with us too."

Would that be Tereblinka I or Treblinka II? If you mean Treblinka II, they hid the areas they did not want people to see. The "Undressing Square" in the "Lower Camp" was connected to the extermination area by the "Tube". This pathway, 80-90 m long and approximately 4 m wide, was enclosed with 2 m high camouflaged barbed wire fences. The guards living area was in a different part of the complex.

 

[9/11-investigator]

I think the ground might have them =/. At least thats where I would look .

So did Krege. Krege's investigation with ground penetrating radar proved otherwise. There is nothing in the ground of Treblinka that remotely points towards 870,000 people buried there.

I kinda want to see a picture of an S.S. Officier being nice to a Jew now =/. At the time of the Holocaust of course. You know, the one that happened during World War II?

Rather relaxed pictures from Auschwitz.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/09/09/Auschwitz_orchestra.html

Matches exactly the experience of my (Dutch) father who was also held in a camp not to far from Auschwitz. The Germans where not sadists or bastards but normal people. Singing together occured regular. The basic rule was: don't cause us trouble then we will not cause you trouble. Everybody was longing for the end of the war.

Here is a Jew playing accordeon:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/09/09/images/Auschwitz_band/Lange_Jakob_600.jpg

Probably from 1942 or so when life in the camps was still bearable.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

If I may nitpick, I think you will find that many of the people claiming that Marx was a Jew have no interest in his beliefs or self identification. (Which are, IMO the crucial aspect).

I am adding self identification as there is a Jewish religion, but there is also a Jewish people, and they are intertwined by the atypical history of Jews. One can be a non-religious Jew, in the sense that he sees himself as a part of the Jewish people. Anyway, this is not relevant to Marx, and I am digressing.

I understand your point. May I propose this rebutal? There is a self identified group called christians, they have a christian history, one can even be a non-practicing christian. Karl Marx was baptaised by his parent as a christian. Therefore I can apply "Jew" or "christian" with equal weight but neither has any meaning as Mark did not write Das Kapital when he was 6 years old but wrote it after he shunned religion.

Once we removed these aspects, the claim that Marx was a Jew is based on the fact that his grandparents were, as you stated. To put it differently, on his genes rather than what he considered himself to be. This is a racist claim. It is not surprising then that the Marx-was-a-Jew-claim is common in racist circles.

I understand your points and I agree. Racism is just silly.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

Maybe he should have thought about that before he attacked some one with a Defensive Pact. If he did not know there was one then yes, he was a fool.

( I am having trouble quoting other people's quotes so this reply may look weird)

Hitler knew that the UK, Commonwealth and France would declare war on Germany after Germany declared war on Poland. That is not in dispute. Hitler was not "pushed into the war" and indeed the League of Nations had dealt with Memmel and other ethinic German populations in other countries. Hitler walked out of the League of Nations to stop an negotiated settlement to replace it with military threats. It was his choice.