9/11-investigator explains the Holocaust

[Ignorantbystander]

Fair enough--educate me

If you have your doubts why don't you educate yourself?
It's like 911investigator asking ; demonstrate me...

There is plenty of holocaust literature, see for yourself what is known about the holocaust and what data historians base their conclusions on.
I don't see it as my task to educate you.

 

[EGarrett]

As a genuine skeptic I look at this subject with no opinion, just a desire for more information. Some of you might mock the idea of a "Holocaust Skeptic" just as much as you'd mock a "Flat Earth Skeptic" but I don't think that comparison can really be made.

Yes it can, because a "Flat Earth Skeptic" (I think you mean "Round Earth Skeptic") is ignoring all common sense. Common sense, given what can be observed about the sun's movement, the horizon, the shape of the moon and other celestial bodies in the sky, and much more all dictate that the Earth is round. Common sense also dictates that you can't make 6 million people disappear (or 5 million if you acknowledge 1 million killed in the war), let alone make the 20-30 million family members and close friends of those 6 million people lie about how the people disappeared, without any leaks or confessors coming out to mess up the story. Furthermore, there isn't even a precedent for this that would indicate it was even remotely possible. It just makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. It's like the Passenger-Pilot question that 9/11 conspiracy theorists have never been able to answer, but multiplied a thousand times over. I repeat...holocaust skepticism VIOLATES ALL COMMON SENSE and complete ignores everything a reasonable person can observe about human nature and how the world works.

True, perhaps I'm woefully ignorant on the subject. Fair enough--educate me. Or at least point me to a URL that can promise that.

Just from reading this thread you can find links. From using google you can find links. You're making yourself look willfully ignorant or intellectually dishonest by even asking this question.

http://www.google.com/search?q=holo...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

" Results 1 - 10 of about 150,000 for holocaust denial answers. (0.29 seconds)
Search Results

1.
Holocaust Educational Resource
66 Questions & Answers About the Holocaust · The Techniques of Holocaust Denial · The Trial of Adolf Eichmann · Holocaust "Revisionism" or Holocaust Denial? ...
www.nizkor.org/ - Cached - Similar
2.
Answers to the 66 Questions of Holocaust Deniers
The real answer is that this claim of "Jewish interrogators in British uniform" appears nowhere else in Holocaust-denier literature. This claim appears only ...
www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/denial1.html - Cached - Similar"

 

[Skeptic]

As a genuine skeptic I look at this subject with no opinion, just a desire for more information.

If you really desired more information, it is the easiest thing in the world to check the local library or even do a google search for "holocaust history", and find as much information as you could possibly want demonstrating how and where the holocaust occurred.

Why don't you do that? Wait, don't tell me: you're "skeptical" of the enormous amount of evidence that proves conclusively the holocaust happened for the same reason similar "open minded skeptics" pretend to have "no opinion" about whether evolution or creationism is true, and are just "skeptical" of the enormous amount of data for evolution, (or "open minded" about whether the earth is round or flat, or whether 9/11 was, or was not, a government-planned conspiracy, etc.)

You're not open minded. You're just a holocaust denier in a flimsy rhetorical disguise.

Oh, and by the way: having as your avatar a picture of Bobby Fischer -- a chess genius but, alas, known lately mostly for his paranoid antisemitic rants -- hardly helps make the case that you're "open minded". Oh wait, don't tell me -- you're a chess fan. And, of all chess "heroes" you could choose, you just happened to choose the one who was a complete antisemitic nutball. A complete coincidence!

Sure it is.

 

[dudalb]

OMG, an old hippie who thinks he got wiser, while only replacing his old fringe views for another fringe belief.
it figures...

It's not unusual for people to jump from one political extreme to another.
And often they jump back again..and again..and again.....

 

[dudalb]

You're not open minded. You're just a holocaust denier in a flimsy rhetorical disguise.

I would not go quite that far. He seems more like the kind of individual who is attracted by any unorthodox, anti establishment theory because it seems "Daring " and "edgy". He has supported a number of bizarre theories on various topics here.
As for his being open minded, that old saying about being so open minded your brains fall out is one he should heed.

 

[Moss]

Judging from what I read so far http://www.holocaust-history.org/ isn't a bad starting to point to read about the Holocaust. It also has a good link list and reading suggestions.

And as for motive and use of euphemisms you have to look no further than the Posen Speech of 1943.

 

[Trojan]

It seems to me that if the gassings really happened then rock-solid forensic evidence would have emerged by now.

Have you investigated?

Do you know what the Auchwitz gas chambers look like today? They are in ruins, destroyed by the retreating Germans months before the Red Army arrived -- yet they did NOT destroy the hospital or other vital structures.

Nothing like the murderer destroying the murder weapon, then years later, claiming the murder did not take place because the murder weapon is not available for examination.

Rather like the demand to produce an autopsy report of gassing -- a revisionist bumpersticker argument.

 

[Think_Tank]

Oh, and by the way: having as your avatar a picture of Bobby Fischer -- a chess genius but, alas, known lately mostly for his paranoid antisemitic rants -- hardly helps make the case that you're "open minded". Oh wait, don't tell me -- you're a chess fan. And, of all chess "heroes" you could choose, you just happened to choose the one who was a complete antisemitic nutball. A complete coincidence!

Sure it is.

Good catch. I'm ashamed I actually spent whole minutes of my life composing a balanced reply to this {numerous ad-hominems removed} troll.

 

[dudalb]

But having Fischer as an avatar is so daring and edgy!.........

 

[jmh423]

Equal Time

I have not done any real investigation of the holocaust, so I'm not sure who's telling the truth. I heard they changed the number they claimed were killed at Auchwitz from 4 million to 1 million. Is that true?...If so, did they reconcile the numbers to get back to 6 million? I don't know, can anyone enlighten me on that one? However the FACT that they are locking people up for questioning the official line in Germany makes me tend to believe that those promoting the official line have much to hide. The truth does not fear investigation. Also, I would like to see an equal or greater amount of holocaust museums dedicated to the 50 million Russian Christians who were systematically murdered by a predominately Jewish politburo during the Lenin-Trotsky-Stalin era...Couldn't we all learn something from this also?...Who was in charge of the cold blooded murder of Czar Nickolas and his family? These should also be household names along with Hitler, Himmler, Geobels...Let's expose ALL the mass murderers, not just the gentiles. Is it "anti-semetic" to point out murder and thievery by Jews? Help me on this one please...It is my understanding that the Russian Revolution & the Nazi war machine were funded out of New York & London by the major banking houses, who then cleaned up by loaning money to both sides of the two world wars that were fought. If some of those bankers happened to be Jewish, is it anti-semetic to call them down on their chicanery? Just wondering. You can't be too careful these days. In the end, I am in favor of exposing ALL tyrants, murderers, theives, usurers, war profiteers and gangsters no matter whether they go to church on Sunday, or to Temple on Saturday...Your thoughts and comments are welcomed. Thanks

 

[Jungle Jim]

Oh, and by the way: having as your avatar a picture of Bobby Fischer -- a chess genius but, alas, known lately mostly for his paranoid antisemitic rants -- hardly helps make the case that you're "open minded". Oh wait, don't tell me -- you're a chess fan. And, of all chess "heroes" you could choose, you just happened to choose the one who was a complete antisemitic nutball. A complete coincidence!

Sure it is.

At first glance I thought it was Richard Speck.

 

[headscratcher4]

"...Also, I would like to see an equal or greater amount of holocaust museums dedicated to the 50 million Russian Christians who were systematically murdered by a predominately Jewish politburo during the Lenin-Trotsky-Stalin era..."

Ah, another unbiased skeptic weighs in.

 

[Skeptic]

I have not done any real investigation of the holocaust, so I'm not sure who's telling the truth.

I have no done any real investigation myself, so I'm not sure the earth is round and not flat.

 

[jmh423]

What's your point?

Quote:"I haven't done any real investigation myself so I'm not sure if the earth is flat....bla bla


I think the "authorities" also used to lock people up for insinuating that the world was round....didn't they? My point is: Why is it against the law to question and investigate these events in ANY country, and why would the US or Canada ever consider extradicting someone to such a kangaroo court? That is very SCARY....Are we here in the US next to strip our citizens of freedom of speech, and thought? I sure hope not.

Perhaps the Bolcheviks lied or fudged the numbers, maybe blamed the Germans for some of their ruthless mass murdering behavior...These Soviets were, after all the world champions at lying cheating and mass murdering...Any answers about the change from 4 million claimed killed at Auchwitz down to 1 million? Is that true? And if so, how did they still arrive at the 6 million number? It must have taken a great team of accountants to pull that one off.....Arthur Anderson & Assoc.?

 

[Baylor]

Just what we need, another anti-semitic YouTube truther troll. Please stay away from the 9/11 CT section, our sock drawer is full.

 

[Simon39759]

But; it's not against the law to question and investigate.
Thousand of scholars are doing that every day as part of their job.
They are the ones that came up with the six million estimate; they are the ones who correcter Rudolf Hess' estimate of 3 million down to 1.1 millions.

Sincerely investigating the matter certainly is not illegal. 60 years after the fact, it is also unlikely to bring out any major new insights on the events. Thousands of scholars have looked into the matter and all arrived to a very similar conclusion.
Sure, a small handful of people, most of them cranks, almost all of them anti-semites, have reach a different conclusion, but it's easy to suspect that their conclusions were formed before hand and were motivated chiefly by their unsavoury desire to white-wash the crimes of their political forerunners.

As for Holocaust denial being a crime, first of all, it is not 'posing questions' that is illegal, it is going against what is the demonstrated truth in order to make the actions of a criminal regime more appealing, presumably to try and bring it back so that it can get another try.
Holocaust denialism can be, in that respect, be considered as being accessory to (future) mass murder.

And it is only a crime in a small number of European countries and I don't think the U.S would extract somebody for that. And it will not get you locked up either. A fine is all you risk and, in many instance, is easily paid of by the revenues from the slobbering masses of Hitler fanboys that takes such condemnation as a badge of quality.
Finally, I'd object to the description of the term 'Kangaroo court' that you disagree with that particular segment of the law (as do I) does not mean that the judgement itself would be unfair. The number of people that routinely surf the line on the hate-speech laws clearly prove that. You use of the words 'Kangaroo court', in itself suggests a bias.

 

[jmh423]

Not Exactly Correct

I believe that the US extradicted a man named Ernst Zundle who was sentenced to 5 years in prison for questioning the facts presented by the officials in Germany. Correct me if I'm wrong..

 

[jmh423]

Simon, your assertion that these holocaust denial laws have been enacted to stop hateful people from:
"making the actions of a criminal regime more appealing, presumably to try and bring it back so that it can get another try. Holocaust denialism can be, in that respect, be considered as being accessory to (future) mass murder."

This is a completely false premise. Those who you catagorize as holocaust deniers are NOT making the alleged actions of a criminal government more appealing. They are saying that the crimes alleged are not true...That's different, wouldn't you agree. If there were people defending the race or religious based mass murders committed by a "criminal regime", I would agree that they should be dealt with as a danger to humanity. That isn't the case with Zundle, or several others who contend that the official story is ********. The "kangaroo courts" in Germany havre even refused to let defendants present evidence that backs their assertions. Do some research about these cases...Thanks

Google Search:"What The Holocaust
Debate Is Really About
Terrell E. Arnold
3-2-9

Informative article that might clear up some misunderstanding about what you percieve as Holocaust Denial...

 

[Simon39759]

No.
Because the crimes of the Nazis ARE true. Beyond the shade of any reasonable doubt.
The deniers are either, well, in denial. Or lying about it.

It is also undeniable that pretending that the Holocaust did not happen does result in washing the Nazi regime of his most heinous crime, hence making it appear more reasonable and more appealing and hence making its return more likely.
Even if you were not to look into the motivation of the deniers that characterization would still stand.

Now, there is the fact that all but a few of the denier just happen to be on very friendly term with the far right.
Faurisson; Irving; Zündle... All are known anti-semite, all seems to relish in the presence of the far-right, including neo-nazis.
That gives us the motive for the denial. It's not just a (series of) honest mistakes that happens to help legitimizing the Nazism. It is a concious effort to try and do so.

 

[Jontg]

As for Holocaust denial being a crime, first of all, it is not 'posing questions' that is illegal, it is going against what is the demonstrated truth in order to make the actions of a criminal regime more appealing, presumably to try and bring it back so that it can get another try.
Holocaust denialism can be, in that respect, be considered as being accessory to (future) mass murder.

Or, as I like to put it, it's basically a very fancy way of saying "Wait, that one didn't count! Do-over!"