Merged 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[phil76]

I am surprised, maybe it's because I am not american ?

Why do you think a secret information will be given to you only because you make a FOIA request ? How many long it is in the USA before a classified information is declassified ?

 

[T.A.M.]

I am surprised, maybe it's because I am not american ?

Why do you think a secret information will be given to you only because you make a FOIA request ? How many long it is in the USA before a classified information is declassified ?

A good point. It is funny, the truthers demand to have it both ways. When we provide them with information from the FBI, NTSB, FAA, that supports the official account of 9/11, they claim the evidence has been "planted" or "Forged", but when they get or ask to obtain anything via FOIA from these organizations, they treat the documents like the Rosetta Stone of the truth movement.

TAM

 

[Myriad]

Where did I say I had "airtight proof"?

What we are engaged in is research and inquiry. Monaghan continues to do excellent work receiving documents per FOIA request. These work orders present a clear response to the oft-repeated debunking tactic of asking how the towers could have been prepped for CD.

If anyone has the intellectual integrity to actually read through the documents they may be intrigued by the relationship between Bush, Leppert, and NAVSEA.

Okay, so your objection to suggestions to "go report them" is on the grounds that you openly acknowledge that the evidence you have is not sufficient to make a case?

If so, then you're right; asking you to "go report them" when you openly acknowledge you don't have the evidence to make a case is inappropriate.

I apologize if you've stated plainly that you don't have the evidence to make a case, and I missed it.

However, if you want to change that status quo, "Responses to debunking tactics" is not what you should be looking for. You should be looking for actual positive evidence that somebody did one or more of the things you're accusing them of having done. If all you keep coming up with is more accusations of yet more large groups of people being in on it -- which is all evidence of "relationships" amounts to -- the status quo will not change (except that the conspiracy theory will continue inflating to even more implausibly huge dimensions).

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[RedIbis]

Okay, so your objection to suggestions to "go report them" is on the grounds that you openly acknowledge that the evidence you have is not sufficient to make a case?

If so, then you're right; asking you to "go report them" when you openly acknowledge you don't have the evidence to make a case is inappropriate.

I apologize if you've stated plainly that you don't have the evidence to make a case, and I missed it.

However, if you want to change that status quo, "Responses to debunking tactics" is not what you should be looking for. You should be looking for actual positive evidence that somebody did one or more of the things you're accusing them of having done. If all you keep coming up with is more accusations of yet more large groups of people being in on it -- which is all evidence of "relationships" amounts to -- the status quo will not change (except that the conspiracy theory will continue inflating to even more implausibly huge dimensions).

Respectfully,
Myriad

So we shouldn't research. Monaghan should stop making FOIA requests and we should stop learning about the relationships between these people, and if energetic materials were found at the WTC, how they might have gotten there. Is that what you're suggesting?

I just don't understand the resistance to research that often goes on around here.

 

[The Big Dog]

I know the Turner Construction stuff is strange, but is this how you prevent your head from exploding?

Jesus. Turner Construction? Are you freaking kidding me? They are one of the largest construction companies in the world, no freaking **** they are involved in big projects. I see somebody already pointed out that you repeated the lie that they were did the controlled demolition in Seattle.

Hey Red, there is a Turner project going on less than a half of a block from me right now! I've been watching it since they "demolished" the old parking structure that was there, and now they are up about ten stories. Even worse, I've hoisted several pints with their crews at the local establishment. Little did I know that they were working on another Inside Jobby Job!

Freaking worthless.

 

[The Big Dog]

So we shouldn't research. Monaghan should stop making FOIA requests and we should stop learning about the relationships between these people, and if energetic materials were found at the WTC, how they might have gotten there. Is that what you're suggesting?

I just don't understand the resistance to research that often goes on around here.

I am literally amazed at your cognitive dissonance Red, no one, and I mean no one would draw your fraudulent conclusion from the quote you posted.

 

[johnny karate]

If anyone has the intellectual integrity to actually read through the documents they may be intrigued by the relationship between Bush, Leppert, and NAVSEA.

Is this the same level of "intellectual integrity" that compels some people to accuse through implication a construction company with no experience in controlled demolitions of being involved in the controlled demolition of the WTC towers without so much as a shred of evidence?

I think I'll pass on that, thanks.

 

[johnny karate]

So we shouldn't research. Monaghan should stop making FOIA requests and we should stop learning about the relationships between these people, and if energetic materials were found at the WTC, how they might have gotten there. Is that what you're suggesting?

I just don't understand the resistance to research that often goes on around here.

A lecture on doing research from someone who couldn't be bothered to research the claims of a conspiracy website before posting them here.

The irony is palpable.

Research is exactly what you should do, but don't.

About two minutes of research on the Internet, for instance, would have told you that Turner Construction isn't in the controlled demolition industry.

 

[Myriad]

So we shouldn't research. Monaghan should stop making FOIA requests and we should stop learning about the relationships between these people, and if energetic materials were found at the WTC, how they might have gotten there. Is that what you're suggesting?

I just don't understand the resistance to research that often goes on around here.

I'm not saying what you should or should not do, I'm saying what I expect will or will not happen as a result.

If you keep reporting findings of "relationships" as if the existence of relationships explains anything or is evidence of anything, the status quo will not change.

If you keep offering speculation on how "energetic materials" (other than, presumably, the extremely energetic plastics, cellulose, and jet fuel whose presence is easily explained) might have gotten into the WTC, when no valid evidence of the presence of anomalous energetic materials at the WTC has been offered, the status quo will not change.

If you do not want the status quo to change, then of course my advice is irrelevant to you.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[johnny karate]

From another thread's derail:

It was pointed out to you by Hokulele in that thread that they are involved in demos, and they subcontract demolition companies.

This is what Hokulele said (I've bolded the portions you seem to be overlooking):

They are a general contractor and do offer basic demolition services, primarily associated with renovations. However, all of the project data I can find on them talks about mechanical demolition, not explosive. I wouldn't find it hard to believe that they would offer such services, but provide them through a sub-contractor rather than directly through their own staff.

That sounds like they are involved, as much as you wish to deny it, they supervised the demo of the Kingdome.

Turner Construction is not in the controlled demolition industry. When a controlled demolition is required on one of their projects, they hire someone else to do it.

This was the case in the Kingdome demolition.

Unless Turner Construction brought with them a controlled demolition sub-contractor when they performed the renovations at WTC, there is absolutely no basis to suspect they had anything to do with your imaginary controlled demolition.

I have provided ample documentation in support of this assertion. You have provided nothing more than the parroted, unsubstantiated claims of a conspiracy website in support of yours.

 

[Hokulele]

Good grief, is that what RedIbis is doing with my post?

Way to miss the point, Red, and just how many people are now "in on it"?

 

[johnny karate]

Good grief, is that what RedIbis is doing with my post?

Way to miss the point, Red, and just how many people are now "in on it"?

Like it or not, Hokulele, you are now "supporting" the Truth Movement.

Keep an eye out for your truncated, out-of-context quotes on Truther sites all over the Internet.

 

[Bananaman]

Mr Karate:

Keep an eye out for your truncated, out-of-context quotes on Truther sites all over the Internet.

This'll never happen to me. I've just checked in for the first time in a week and my list now stands at a 124 mod messages telling me they've moved posts, deleted them or had them burned at the stake for being naughty.

Considering this is 50% or thereabouts of my posts I hereby claim a new record. (Well, at least no light-fingered troofers are going to get the chance to paste me all over the web. They'd never get the chance.)

Bananaman.

 

[Minadin]

I posted a topic in the Puzzles subforum based on this photo we've often seen:

Where the question is if the column actually angle-cut or simply leaning over toward the camera at an odd angle for perspective. So far, no one has even cared to make a guess, but then, I thought, how often to 9-11 CT sub-forum users frequent the Puzzles section? Perhaps some of you would like to hazard a try.

Thanks.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/1253246e953510c564.jpg

 

[T.A.M.]

I dunno, but the angled one on the far right, pointing left, would look identical to the "cut" one, if you viewed the scene from the left side (looking right), and it is clearly cut straight.

TAM

 

[RedIbis]

Good grief, is that what RedIbis is doing with my post?

Way to miss the point, Red, and just how many people are now "in on it"?

No need to be so partisan. You were correct in your assessment of Turner's services, I was merely pointing that out to Johnny.

 

[240-185]

NIST website is down

 

[T.A.M.]

Fellow JREF Debunkers/Skeptics:

Bannaman has been Banned. Jackornary has been suspended. As I have said before, the truthers that remain here, and some in particular, are almost to a man/woman here only to agitate, troll, bait, in order to bring the people in this forum into arguments that result in just that...banning and suspension.

If you are going to give in to the baiting/trolling, try to keep your hat on, and post without name calling or other things that will get you suspended. Better still, put them on ignore, and leave it at that.

The number of truther posters here, who have something productive, even to their own cause, to say, are few and far between.

TAM

 

[Dave Rogers]

Bananaman has been Banned.

That's utterly typical of the Bush-loving JREF's stance in support of the military-industrial complex and the New World Order conspiracy. All it takes is a member to step out of line by trying to question the US Government's official conspiracy theory about nineteen Neanderthal cavemen somehow overcoming the most powerful robot-weapons-based defence the world has ever known, and they get banned just to shut them up.

Oh, wait, he's on the other side...

Dave

 

[DavidJames]

Fellow JREF Debunkers/Skeptics:

Bannaman has been Banned. Jackornary has been suspended. As I have said before, the truthers that remain here, and some in particular, are almost to a man/woman here only to agitate, troll, bait, in order to bring the people in this forum into arguments that result in just that...banning and suspension.

If you are going to give in to the baiting/trolling, try to keep your hat on, and post without name calling or other things that will get you suspended. Better still, put them on ignore, and leave it at that.

The number of truther posters here, who have something productive, even to their own cause, to say, are few and far between.

TAM

Well said, but I would argue that even polite debate with the likes of Galileo, ULTIMA1, RedIbis is serving only to feed their ego's.

Ignoring is the best medicine. Although an occasional, figurative, whack on the head with pithy sarcasm can alleviate some stress