Merged 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

[johnny karate]

And if he can come to terms with that, as it seems he can and has done, it makes you wonder if his beef with members of this forum is purely emotional, rather than rational.

A very salient point.

We all accept the conventional narrative for the events of 9/11, and I doubt any of us would object to any and all persons responsible through incompetence or failure to act to be held accountable.

If RedIbis is so comfortable with people having this viewpoint, it makes you wondering why he's been here so long arguing with us.

 

[RedIbis]

Well, in about two months he will be the most powerful man in the world. He will, above anybody else have the power to see to it that new investigations into 9/11 happen. He can hold people accountable.

What happens to your world view if this does not happen?

Not much. I supported Obama as the presidential candidate and I hope he can do the best possible job working on the nation's problems.

I also hope that Joba Chamberlain can pitch 200+ innings as a starter.

 

[dtugg]

Not much. I supported Obama as the presidential candidate and I hope he can do the best possible job working on the nation's problems.

I also hope that Joba Chamberlain can pitch 200+ innings as a starter.

So you support a guy that may not be willing to find The Truth^TM about one of the most important events of all time and hold those responsible accountable?

 

[T.A.M.]

I think most people here, if the were being honest, would have to say that elements of the USG were incompetent wrt 9/11. The questions are (A) should there be punishment, or accountability for such (and if so, what), and (B) was the incompetence so severe, and so unacceptable, that it could be considered NEGLIGENCE.

I foresee Obama finding that many were incompetent, but I have my doubts (though I may be surprised) that he will find any criminally negligent.

As to what, if any repercussions he would dish out, I suspect it will not matter, as there is likely a cleaning of house coming anyway...making it moot.

TAM

 

[RedIbis]

So you support a guy that may not be willing to find The Truth^TM about one of the most important events of all time and hold those responsible accountable?

I'm a realist. He would not have been elected had voiced any skepticism of the official narrative. He will also not be very effective, especially at the start if he pursues investigations and holds those accountable who were incompetent.

I don't expect him to address it in the slightest, which has nothing to do with why I support his presidency.

 

[RedIbis]

I think most people here, if the were being honest, would have to say that elements of the USG were incompetent wrt 9/11. The questions are (A) should there be punishment, or accountability for such (and if so, what), and (B) was the incompetence so severe, and so unacceptable, that it could be considered NEGLIGENCE.

I foresee Obama finding that many were incompetent, but I have my doubts (though I may be surprised) that he will find any criminally negligent.

As to what, if any repercussions he would dish out, I suspect it will not matter, as there is likely a cleaning of house coming anyway...making it moot.

TAM

Good post, but I disagree on some points.
(A) of course there should. What are we afraid of finding out? If these people were incompetent, are they still in their positions? If the Bush administration had knowledge of incompetence and did not remove these people, this is negligence as well, if not criminal and it continues to make our defenses vulnerable.

(B) this can only be determined through transparent investigation, of which the administration completely prevented.

I disagree that there will be a "cleaning of house." Obama won be moderating or softening his position. He will make far greater progress by continuing this moderation. I expect him to put 9/11 behind the public's consciousness and focus far more on immediate challenges such as the economy.

 

[dtugg]

I'm a realist. He would not have been elected had voiced any skepticism of the official narrative. He will also not be very effective, especially at the start if he pursues investigations and holds those accountable who were incompetent.

I don't expect him to address it in the slightest, which has nothing to do with why I support his presidency.

He has been elected now. He will be President for at least four years unless he dies, resigns, or is removed from office. If in that time, he doesn't look into the "official narrative" of the most important event of a generation which killed 3,000 people because he thinks that the backlash would hurt him politically, he is a coward. Or maybe he is a dupe? Or a conspirator?

 

[RedIbis]

He has been elected now. He will be President for at least four years unless he dies, resigns, or is removed from office. If in that time, he doesn't look into the "official narrative" of the most important event of a generation which killed 3,000 people because he thinks that the backlash would hurt him politically, he is a coward. Or maybe he is a dupe? Or a conspirator?

He's a survivalist.

 

[T.A.M.]

Good post, but I disagree on some points.
(A) of course there should. What are we afraid of finding out? If these people were incompetent, are they still in their positions? If the Bush administration had knowledge of incompetence and did not remove these people, this is negligence as well, if not criminal and it continues to make our defenses vulnerable.

(B) this can only be determined through transparent investigation, of which the administration completely prevented.

I disagree that there will be a "cleaning of house." Obama won be moderating or softening his position. He will make far greater progress by continuing this moderation. I expect him to put 9/11 behind the public's consciousness and focus far more on immediate challenges such as the economy.

1. I am not afraid of finding out anything. However, if you were to fire or prosecute every "incompetent" in the USG, well the conservative idea of "small government" would seem gigantic in comparison.

2. Incompetence does not indicate malice, therefore, would not education or re-education also be a valid approach to those who were found to be incompetent?

3. It is a long four years, and I see Obama multitasking. That said, given his pre elected stance on 9/11, I agree, he will not likely pursue much if anything in this regard.

4. With the Bush Administration gone, Obama will not have to lead the country away from thoughts of 9/11...that will happen anyway.

TAM

 

[RedIbis]

We should be skeptical of incompetence, especially when it's comprehensive. It makes for an excellent cover, however.

 

[johnny karate]

I don't expect him to address it in the slightest, which has nothing to do with why I support his presidency.

I disagree that there will be a "cleaning of house." Obama won be moderating or softening his position. He will make far greater progress by continuing this moderation. I expect him to put 9/11 behind the public's consciousness and focus far more on immediate challenges such as the economy.

So, as long as there is someone RedIbis likes in the White House, he finds it acceptable that criminals like General Richard Myers and the frauds and liars at NIST should be allowed to go unpunished for their role in preventing and/or covering up the events of 9/11.

[Discerning the truth about 9/11] can only be determined through transparent investigation, of which the administration completely prevented

A course of action will we undoubtedly see continue into Obama's presidency. But of course, as his statements above demonstrate, this does not present a problem for RedIbis. It seems his beliefs about a supposed 9/11 conspiracy are firmly rooted, and rather hypocritically so, in his political bias.

 

[RedIbis]

So, as long as there is someone RedIbis likes in the White House, he finds it acceptable that criminals like General Richard Myers and the frauds and liars at NIST should be allowed to go unpunished for their role in preventing and/or covering up the events of 9/11.



A course of action will we undoubtedly see continue into Obama's presidency. But of course, as his statements above demonstrate, this does not present a problem for RedIbis. It seems his beliefs about a supposed 9/11 conspiracy are firmly rooted, and rather hypocritically so, in his political bias.

I'm not shocked you've overlooked this but people like Bush and Myers bear responsibility and were "on duty" so to speak, before, during, and after 9/11. Obama wasn't.

You might be concerned that this needs to be explained to you.

 

[dtugg]

He's a survivalist.

So according to you, his Presidency (or at least an additional four years to it) is more important than uncovering what really happened on the most important day of a generation? He still is, at least according to your logic, a coward.

 

[johnny karate]

I'm not shocked you've overlooked this but people like Bush and Myers bear responsibility and were "on duty" so to speak, before, during, and after 9/11. Obama wasn't.

But he will soon be in a position to hold them accountable, and the question of whether or not he will do so is the topic at hand.

You seem content to let him off the hook if he choose not to, a leniency you seem very unwilling to extend to anyone whose political ideology you don't agree with.

 

[RedIbis]

So according to you, his Presidency (or at least an additional four years to it) is more important than uncovering what really happened on the most important day of a generation? He still is, at least according to your logic, a coward.

I would say that it is, at this point, more important to get the country moving in the right direction than it is to investigate 9/11.

He's not a coward, he's a pragmatist.

 

[Pardalis]

Why do you guys bother responding to RedIbis?

 

[johnny karate]

I would say that it is, at this point, more important to get the country moving in the right direction than it is to investigate 9/11.

He's not a coward, he's a pragmatist.

Which is exactly what RedIbis would be saying if McCain had won the election.

 

[dtugg]

I would say that it is, at this point, more important to get the country moving in the right direction than it is to investigate 9/11.

He's not a coward, he's a pragmatist.

I know that you don't want to call him a coward, but he is one according to your world view.

Obama's boss, The People of the United States of America, deserve to know what happened on the day that took the most lives of any attack on the US, ever. If Obama doesn't expose this, he is a coward.

 

[Myriad]

I would say that it is, at this point, more important to get the country moving in the right direction than it is to investigate 9/11.

Not only that, but it will continue, in perpetuity, to be more important to get and keep the country moving in the right direction than it will ever again be to investigate 9/11. Two thousand six isn't coming back.

This would be true even if there were any evidence that 9/11 was any sort of inside job.

Investigating the political narrative of 9/11 is work for historians now, not political activists. No different from investigating how much the Coolidge administration participated in covering up incompetence or wrongdoing of Harding's cabinet.

Of course, historians are (and must be) rather patient with their approach. New evidence and new interpretations emerge, not in weeks or months, but in decades or centuries.

So, like others I'm wondering where that leaves the would-be activists of the truth movement. Their outlooks and tactics must change for the new environment. One question is whether that change will be volitional or evolutionary.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[gumboot]

It's not really worthy of a thread, but I thought I'd let my NWO buddies know that after much hard work and underhanded action, the South Pacific chapter of the NWO has succeeded in electing a multi-millionaire Jewish Banker as Prime Minister of New Zealand.

I hope this somewhat counters the utterly abysmal efforts of our North American brethren in this most recent American election. Letting a Democrat and a Negro into the White House! Shame on you!

The preceding announcement was brought to you with a heavy dose of sarcasm. Gumboot accepts no responsibility for any consequences of someone believing the above. Except the bit about the Negro.

The writers of this disclaimer would like to announce that the writers of the previous disclaimer did not reflect the values or beliefs of Gumboot Inc. and their opinions are entirely their own. Gumboot Inc. strongly and categorically disagrees with the previous writer's dishonest and underhanded remarks about John Key not being a Jew.