85,000 Iraqis killed, 150,000 wounded from 2004-2008

[oldhat]

Remind me, what the **** are we supposed to be doing there?

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/10/14/world/AP-ML-Iraq.html

BAGHDAD (AP) -- At least 85,000 Iraqis lost their lives from 2004-2008 in violence, the government said in its first comprehensive tally released since the war began.

The report by the Human Rights Ministry said 85,694 people were killed in the four-year period and 147,195 were wounded. It counted Iraqi civilians, military and police but did not cover U.S. military deaths, insurgents, or foreigners, including contractors or U.S. forces. And it did not include the first months of the war after the 2003 U.S.-led invasion.

The Associated Press reported in April that the government had recorded 87,215 Iraqi deaths from 2005 to February 2009, a toll very similar to the latest release. It was based on government statistics obtained by the AP and covered violence ranging from catastrophic bombings to execution-style slayings.

Until the AP report, the government's toll of Iraqi deaths had been one of the most closely guarded secrets of the war. It has been hotly disputed because of the high political stakes in a war opposed by many countries and by a large portion of the American public. Critics on each side accuse the other of manipulating the toll to sway public opinion.

 

[Pardalis]

Remind me, what the **** are we supposed to be doing there?

Remove Saddam Hussein. It also cancelled the sanctions.

 

[oldhat]

Remove Saddam Hussein. It also cancelled the sanctions.

No, it was something about WMD and al Qaeda. 6+ years later and conservatives are still moving the goalposts? Amazing.

 

[DC]

Remind me, what the **** are we supposed to be doing there?

Save the world from Saddams Stockpiles of WMD's

 

[Pardalis]

From your link:

"Through the terrorist attacks like explosions, assassinations, kidnappings and forced displacements, the outlawed groups have created these terrible figures which represent a big challenge for the rule of law and for the Iraqi people,'' it said.

Violence has declined dramatically since the worst years, but almost every person in Iraq has been touched by the violence. Insurgents continue to target civilians, especially Shiites and their shrines.

Iraq's death toll continued to climb on Wednesday when three near simultaneous blasts struck the southern Shiite holy city of Karbala. At least six people were killed, Iraqi police and medical officials said.

It seems the insurgency and the civil war is mostly to blame for the death toll.

 

[Marc39]

Other sources put the casualty figure at 100K.

 

[Praktik]

So there's around 30 million people in Iraq.

85 000 out of 30 million = 0.3% of the population

whats the big deal??

0.3% of America, which I'm counting as 300 million - that works out to 900 000 americans.

Wouldn't the American people gladly give up 900 000 souls for freedom?

Why are the Iraqis so ungrateful?

 

[Pardalis]

No, it was something about WMD and al Qaeda. 6+ years later and conservatives are still moving the goalposts? Amazing.

Sorry to have removed your beloved dictator.

 

[oldhat]

From your link:
It seems the insurgency and the civil war is mostly to blame for the death toll.

Yes, and both were direct results of the stupidest foreign policy blunder in American history that the idiot right wing cheered on and refuses to accept responsibility for. And we're still collectively paying the price for it.

 

[Pardalis]

So there's around 30 million people in Iraq.

85 000 out of 30 million = 0.3% of the population

whats the big deal??

0.3% of America, which I'm counting as 300 million - that works out to 900 000 americans.

Wouldn't the American people gladly give up 900 000 souls for freedom?

Why are the Iraqis so ungrateful?

Let Hussein and his mafia regime stay in power, let his psychotic sons eventually take over, let them rebuild their arsenal and WMDs and steal from their own people while sanctions cripple the population, what would have been the death toll then?

 

[oldhat]

Sorry to have removed your beloved dictator.

Reported. Don't start that juvenile crap with me.

 

[Praktik]

Let Hussein and his mafia regime stay in power, let his psychotic sons eventually take over, let them rebuild their arsenal and WMDs and steal from their own people while sanctions cripple the population, what would have been the death toll then?

Sorry, you're addressing that to me?

 

[Pardalis]

Reported. Don't start that juvenile crap with me.

What would you have done with Saddam Hussein?

 

[oldhat]

let them rebuild their arsenal and WMDs

Have you not read a single credible news story about Iraq's mythical "WMD program" ever in your life?

 

[Pardalis]

Sorry, you're addressing that to me?

Yes.

 

[DC]

Sorry to have removed your beloved dictator.

http://yellowcakewalk.net/2006-11-04/rummy-saddam.jpg

who's beloved dictator?

Do not hotlink images.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Lisa Simpson

 

[Pardalis]

Have you not read a single credible news story about Iraq's mythical "WMD program" ever in your life?

Have you read anything about that horrible regime and what it was capable of? Oh right, you're one of those " Hussein was not a threat to anyone" guys... Tell that to the Kurds.

 

[Praktik]

Let Hussein and his mafia regime stay in power, let his psychotic sons eventually take over, let them rebuild their arsenal and WMDs and steal from their own people while sanctions cripple the population, what would have been the death toll then?

I'm wary of even answering this question because if you're taking as your starting premise the following:

• Praktik would have been fine with Saddam and his violence-prone authoritarian regime killing people instead

Then I'm not sure my posts on the issue will be treated fairly. Its a weak attempt to paint me as being an apologist for Saddam, or otherwise uncaring for the Iraqi people.

If that's the kind of disengenuousness you wanna start with, then why should I continue the conversation at all?

My red flags are up, and I'm not convinced it would be worth the effort. How would you twist my words subsequently?

Is it worth it talking to someone like that?

 

[oldhat]

What would you have done with Saddam Hussein?

Like any sane, rational person I would have ignored Saddam the tinpot dictator and focused on the war we had already started in Afghanistan, unlike Bush who pussed out and let OBL get away in Tora Bora because he was the worst, most incompetent C-in-C in the annals of the American Presidency.

I find this conservative response amusing "Oh yeah?!? OH YEAH?!? Well what would you have done about Bad Guy Dictator X in Freedonia? Huh HUH?"

 

[Pardalis]

I'm wary of even answering this question because if you're taking as your starting premise the following:

• Praktik would have been fine with Saddam and his violence-prone authoritarian regime killing people instead

Then I'm not sure my posts on the issue will be treated fairly. Its a weak attempt to paint me as being an apologist for Saddam, or otherwise uncaring for the Iraqi people.

If that's the kind of disengenuousness you wanna start with, then why should I continue the conversation at all?

My red flags are up, and I'm not convinced it would be worth the effort. How would you twist my words subsequently?

Is it worth it talking to someone like that?

So what would you have done with Hussein?

Six years, and I've never seen a left winger answer that question.