8/10 Terrorist conspiracy

[Pardalis]

You want a fallacy? Barrett believes 9/11 was an inside job because he thinks a few Muslims with boxcutters can't highjack planes and fly them onto buildings.

Argument from incredulity.

Better now?

 

[Dazed]

What's the point of this "discussion", Dazed?

Apparently to mock conspiracy theorists for things they haven't said yet? Read back to page 1.

Sorry if I'm interrupting that.

 

[senorpogo]

Back to the UK topic -
If CTers believe the government is behind every terrorist attack, what exactly do they think about muslim extermist groups who have admitted to targeting the west for attacks?

Do they believe that they're government patsy groups used to create more fear? Do they believe that they're actually trying to attack us but they're successfully kept in check by the government? Do they believe they're nice, innocent groups who are unfairly portrayed in the west? Do they even believe they exist?

I guess my point is that by saying the government is behind it all one completely ignores a very large population and their stated grievances with the US and the west.

 

[Pardalis]

Apparently to mock conspiracy theorists for things they haven't said yet? Read back to page 1.

Sorry if I'm interrupting that.

Continue reading this thread past post #1, CTers have already claimed the terrorist plot of being false.

 

[Joytown]

I find it somewhat interesting that the CT'ers are already calling this a "false flag" operation and that it somehow ties into 9-11 because "they want to make us all fear terrorism so they can do whatever they want" (whoever "they" are).

The truth is, this foiled plot shows how just badly Bush and the US Administration have misplaced their priorities. I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I predict that NONE of the suspected terrorists arrested will be Iraqis or Saddam loyalists.

Here's a selected quote from the middle of a news article I was reading:

Unlike past incidents when warnings of a terrorism appear, critics were quick to challenge Bush's priorities in fighting terror and his credibility in protecting the nation.

House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi said the events are "an urgent reminder that we must make America safer and the world more stable,'' and called for steps to improve airport security recommended by the 9/11 Commission which have been resisted by the White House.

Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid said the incident shows that "as a result of mismanagement and the wrong funding priorities, we re not as safe as we should be.''

He blamed the expenditure of more than $300 billion to fight the war in Iraq for diverting money that should be spent to combat terrorism.

"This latest plot demonstrates the need for the Bush administration and the Congress to change course in Iraq and ensure that we are taking all the steps necessary to protect Americans at home and across the world,'' Reid said.

And Richard Clarke, Bush's former national coordinator for security and counterterrorism said the plot "demonstrates that five years after 9/11 we have not dealt effectively with the terrorist threat.''

[SOURCE: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/10/MNGE0KF9BJ7.DTL]

So . .this helps the neocon/Bush agenda of a New World Order/Mid-east hegemony and ties to 9/11 .... exactly how? The comments I see on the various CT boards I peruse all remind me of an Inkblot test where the subjects says each of the images presented all remind him of "sex". It seems there is no event too obscure that it can't be somehow related to some global conspiracy for world domination (or a variant thereof).

-Joytown

 

[jon]

http://arkanwolfshade.spaces.live.c...gpart_blogpart=blogview&_c=blogpart#permalink

Thanks.

 

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Apparently to mock conspiracy theorists for things they haven't said yet? Read back to page 1.

Sorry if I'm interrupting that.

He has said it. source: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=r...LOKBoecoQLUif2TDQ&sig2=2B1W9tqfzjnUkML3eEX20g
Timestamp ~1:46
Barrett "I think you have the bizarre theory. You think it was 19 boxcut..guys with boxcutters led by a guy on dialysis in a cave in Afgha..Afghanistan; that's ridiculous. I'm mean, that's the craziest conspiracy theory of all of them." (During his Hannity & Colmes interview)

 

[Brainster]

Is there evidence of links between 9/11 deniers and neo-nazis? I know they've been drawing on far right sources, but are there links beyond that?

By the way, spam telling me to watch Loose Change (well, sent by people with me in their address book, but still spam...) seems like it might have started up again - haven't had any for ages, and got two today Hm, so people see (what is probably) a genuine terrorist attack foiled - and therefore send out spam re. a CT video

Check out this post by Rick Rajter (be sure to read the replies he makes to the comments as well), who's a member of Scholars for 9-11 Denial and collaborating with Morgan Reynolds.

Physics911 has a faq where they accuse the "Zionists" of being behind 9-11. Of course, they're careful to stipulate that they aren't accusing Jews, no sir, just those evil Zionists.

Eric Hufschmid is a famed 9-11 and Holocaust Denier.

 

[Gravy]

If as many have been banned from the LC forums as you say, I hope it was because of inappropriate comments and disrespect rather than holding an opposing belief. If they ban you simply for not believing in 9/11 conspiracies, that's quite lame. I suspect most of it is due to comments pertaining to tin-foil hats and moon landing hoaxes, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

I was permanently IP banned at the beginning of April because the thread I started was too popular. I was not posting on other threads, I had broken no rules, and this was before I had written my LC Viewer Guide.

 

[gumboot]

I find it somewhat interesting that the CT'ers are already calling this a "false flag" operation and that it somehow ties into 9-11 because "they want to make us all fear terrorism so they can do whatever they want" (whoever "they" are).

but I predict that NONE of the suspected terrorists arrested will be Iraqis or Saddam loyalists.

Here's a selected quote from the middle of a news article I was reading:

Why is it that American politicians are so stupid?

How does it follow that "this plot shows America is not protected" blah blah blah.

This was a plot in the United Kingdom. Not the USA. They do realise the United Kingdom is a separate country, right?

Do these moronic Democrats actually honestly believe the USA can magically stop terrorism?

What planet are they on?

British authorities PREVENT a terrorist attack in the United Kingdom, and American politicians harp on about America not being well enough protected?

It looks like CTers aren't the only ones that will do mind gymnastics to bend any event to fit their own political agenda...

-Andrew

 

[gumboot]

If CTers believe the government is behind every terrorist attack, what exactly do they think about muslim extermist groups who have admitted to targeting the west for attacks?

Do they believe that they're government patsy groups used to create more fear? Do they believe that they're actually trying to attack us but they're successfully kept in check by the government? Do they believe they're nice, innocent groups who are unfairly portrayed in the west? Do they even believe they exist?

I guess my point is that by saying the government is behind it all one completely ignores a very large population and their stated grievances with the US and the west.

Their attitudes seem to vary...

Michael Moore, for example:

"Terrorists are not a threat. Yes there have been some horrible terrorist attacks, and there will be attacks in the future, but they are not a threat."



Others seem to think Al Qaeda doesn't exist, or that the terrorists are actually just CIA ninjas or something...

-Andrew

 

[jon]

Check out this post by Rick Rajter549 (be sure to read the replies he makes to the comments as well), who's a member of Scholars for 9-11 Denial550 and collaborating with Morgan Reynolds551.

Physics911 has a faq where they accuse552 the "Zionists" of being behind 9-11. Of course, they're careful to stipulate that they aren't accusing Jews, no sir, just those evil Zionists.

Eric Hufschmid is a famed 9-11 and Holocaust Denier553.

ugh. I'm particularly impressed with the physics911 site - not only are they at the cutting-edge of physics research, this *also* lets them know which intelligence agencies were behind the events of 9/11. Moreover, they know that agencies like the CIA and MI6 don't have leaks, and these agencies use 'extreme prejudice' against those who leak information (well, David Shayler served a few months, I guess )

ETA quote

 

[Skeptic Guy]

Apparently to mock conspiracy theorists for things they haven't said yet? Read back to page 1.

Sorry if I'm interrupting that.

Dazed, I think you hit the nail on the head here. You really need to say something...take a stand on what YOU think. You haven't said anything of substance as of yet as far as I can tell.

You ask the other Forum members to provide you with a data dump of all that has been discussed to date, without going through all the threads to research it yourself. A lot of information has been provided to you with a great deal of patience.

I am new here and one of the reasons I have joined recently is to discuss this supposed "9/11 Conspiracy", but before I just start jumping in, I am doing a lot of reading so I know what the issues and discussion points are. I think you should do the same instead of asking for it to be spoon fed to you.

Why don't you tell us what you believe happened on 9/11 and if there are points that the Loose Changers might have correct, what are they? Otherwise, you are just going to frustrate a lot of people.

 

[Skeptic Guy]

I first ran across the Loose Change video on Google Video and noticed that a lot of comments that rated it with four stars talked about "Zionists" being involved. That is what really set me off.

 

[Brainster]

Colleges are going down because people like Kevin Barret who is pushing his political agenda in a critical point of the youth's lives instead of teaching the subject. I was in public education and I remember my english teacher ranting about Bush or Osama Bin Laden instead of teaching english!

More than anything else, what concerns me with Barrett is that he's bringing extraneous material into the class which he's absolutely not qualified to teach--things like structural analysis of the two towers.

 

[Dr Adequate]

It looks like CTers aren't the only ones that will do mind gymnastics to bend any event to fit their own political agenda...

Reading through the piece in question, the point of the Democrats seems to be that whereas the war in Iraq is not making Americans safer from terrorism, a bit more airport security might. Whether they are right or wrong, I am in no position to say, but this is hardly mental gymnastics.

Michael Moore, for example:

"Terrorists are not a threat. Yes there have been some horrible terrorist attacks, and there will be attacks in the future, but they are not a threat."

You may remember that this was exactly what every Briton said after 7/7. But apparently when an American refuses to participate in his own nation's hysteria, he's letting the side down.

 

[Dr Adequate]

In re the conspiracy theory. Clearly, the British public were not in the least bit fazed by having the London Underground bombed by Blair, Bush, the Freemasons, the Jews, the Lizard People, et al. Are we now meant to be cowed into the arms of the New World Order by the news that our police have foiled a terrorist plot?

What, according to the CTs, was the point?

 

[gumboot]

Reading through the piece in question, the point of the Democrats seems to be that whereas the war in Iraq is not making Americans safer from terrorism, a bit more airport security might. Whether they are right or wrong, I am in no position to say, but this is hardly mental gymnastics.

My issue wasn't with the airport security part (if the 9/11 commission has made recommendations that haven't been followed that point is certainly valid). It was more the assertations that the government isn't doing anything to stop terrorists.

My assertion is:

A) This reflects in no way on the US because it was an operation in Britain
B) The plot was foiled, ergo the methods in place to protect the west ARE working

Their logic seems to imply A) The US is responsible for security against terrorism in ALL countries and B) the only way to protect the west is to entirely get rid of terrorists (not only untrue, but personally I think an impossible task)

You may remember that this was exactly what every Briton said after 7/7. But apparently when an American refuses to participate in his own nation's hysteria, he's letting the side down.

Senorpogo asked what the CTers' stance was on islamic terrorists. I provided an example of a CTer (Michael Moore) who had expressed specific views.

I don't see how Michael Moore is refusing to participate in "hysteria". I would call it more accurate to say he is refusing to participate in reality.

Islamic Terrorists ARE a threat. One can argue how SUBSTANTIAL that threat is, of course. But these people have killed large numbers of people in the past and will do so in the future (by Moore's own opinion). To claim they are not a threat at all defies reason.

-Andrew

 

[Dr Adequate]

My assertion is:

A) This reflects in no way on the US because it was an operation in Britain
B) The plot was foiled, ergo the methods in place to protect the west ARE working

Now look betwen those two ad hoc arguments until your brain explodes with sheer cognitive dissonance. Cheers.

 

[T.A.M.]

Anyone, offhand, remember the link to that letter Barrett wrote to John Kerry. If I remember correctly, he sounded like a raving lunatic in it...teh fartherst think from a "sane Intellectual" I have ever heard.