Split Thread 7WTC - controlled demolition or fire and damage induced collapse?

[GlennB]

1 thru 4 are supposition based on you incomplete knowledge of state of the art of CD.

No, they're based on your (not my) proposal that 600+ columns were cut with high explosives over the space of < 2 seconds.

High explosives cannot be configured to avoid flashes and extremely loud noise. By definition. Those things are part+parcel of being a high explosive.

Your theory is self-debunking, C7. It might be better for you to re-interpret the whole FFA issue.

 

[Christopher7]

Sure. 7 hours of uncontrolled fires and structure damage from the collapse of towers 1 and 2. Case closed.

The fire on floor 12, that supposedly started the collapse had gone out over an hour before the collapse.

In any case, the simultaneous removal of the exterior columns on 7 to 8 floors was not caused by fires. Fires cannot remove 57 steel columns columns instantly, only explosives can.

 

[Christopher7]

What you refuse to grasp is that the columns did not fail simultaneously.

What you refuse to grasp is that I know the NIST version of the collapse progression. All the exterior columns all failed within a second of each other [NIST says 2 sec] allowing the upper portion to fall straight down for ~100 feet. Had the exterior columns not been removed on 7 to 8 floors simultaneously, the top part would not have fallen straight down. Something falling at FFA is falling absolutely straight down.

Now for you're assertion that explosives is the only explanation.

"It can't be because there was no boom-boom."

This threadbare denial tactic has been disproven but you just deny the evidence presented to you.

 

[332nd]

What you refuse to grasp is that I know the NIST version of the collapse progression. All the exterior columns all failed within a second of each other [NIST says 2 sec] allowing the upper portion to fall straight down for ~100 feet. Had the exterior columns not been removed on 7 to 8 floors simultaneously, the top part would not have fallen straight down. Something falling at FFA is falling absolutely straight down.

Never been sky diving?

"It can't be because there was no boom-boom."

This threadbare denial tactic has been disproven but you just deny the evidence presented to you.

No it hasn't. The "explosives were muffled" bit was debunked right out of the gate.

 

[Christopher7]

[FONT="]the[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][/SIZE][SIZE=3][COLOR=black][FONT="] north face descended at gravitational acceleration[/FONT] . . . .[FONT="]This free fall drop continued for approximately 8 stories or 32.0 m (105 ft)[/FONT][/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3] [B][COLOR=black][FONT="]The entire building above the buckled-column region then moved downward in a single unit, as observed[/FONT] [FONT="], [/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=black][FONT="]"a free fall time would be an object that has no structural components below it . . . . there was structural resistance that was provided in this particular case."[/FONT]

You cannot think of another possible explanation. So you avoid admitting that there are no other possibilities by effectively denying the above.

No, there is no EVIDENCE of anything else bringing down 7WTC. No loud booms

Please.
The sounds of explosions were picked up on Ashley Banfield's mic. All the videos were made several blocks away using directional mics designed to pick up what is a few inches in front of them. Very little is picked up from the sides.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhoNYj9_fg&feature=player_embedded

You have no idea how the building could be rigged so stop pretending that you do.
There are over a thousand different types of explosives. [at 18:00]
We control noise levels [at 18:20]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.weloo.com/videos/66410/dc---911-mysteries-part-1-demolitions-2of3wmv.html[/FONT]

You will deny that there are sounds of explosions as you deny all evidence of explosives. No worries mate. I know you are in denial. I am presenting the truth to those who read this but don't post.

 

[Christopher7]

What you refuse to grasp is that I know the NIST version of the collapse progression. All the exterior columns all failed within a second of each other [NIST says 2 sec] allowing the upper portion to fall straight down for ~100 feet. Had the exterior columns not been removed on 7 to 8 floors simultaneously, the top part would not have fallen straight down. Something falling at FFA is falling absolutely straight down.

Never been sky diving?

Do you know the difference between a person jumping out of a airplane and the top 30 stories of a building? Evidently not. A person will be affected by air resistance, a building will not.

No it hasn't. The "explosives were muffled" bit was debunked right out of the gate.

Hogwash. You have no idea how much the sound could be muffled so stop claiming you do.

 

[BigAl]

Please.
The sounds of explosions were picked up on Ashley Banfield's mic.

It was a rumble of falling debris and it started after the collapse started. That's not how man-made demolition works.

Listen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0pKUz8UpSs​

The rumble sounds nothing whatsoever like man-made demolition.

Nothing heard that day was consistent with man-made demolition.

 

[Christopher7]

It was a rumble of falling debris ans it started after the collapse started. Listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0pKUz8UpSs

Ashley hears the explosions starting at 3:31 and turns her head at 3:33. The crowd reacts to the falling building at 3:38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhoNYj9_fg&feature=player_embedded

The rumble sounds nothing whatsoever like man-made demolition.
Nothing heard that day was consistent with man-made demolition.

Not so - You are in denial.

 

[BigAl]

Originally Posted by BigAl
It was a rumble of falling debris ans it started after the collapse started. Listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0pKUz8UpSs

Ashley hears the explosions at 3:31 and turns her head at 3:32. The crowd reacts to the falling building at 3:38

True but not because there was a man-made explosion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhoNYj9_fg&feature=player_embedded

Not so - You are in denial.

 

[Miragememories]

In their final draft report on the collapse of WTC7, the NIST studiously avoided any awareness of freefall in the collapse of WTC7.

After 7 long years of research and computation, the NIST disingenuously attempted to omit, what they had to have known, and what was obvious to anyone who was sober and had an IQ greater than a pop bottle.

Part of the WTC7 collapse occurred at freefall speed.

As Chris has repeatedly pointed out, and OCT deniers ignore, complete freefall across a complete floor, absolutely can not occur without the near instantaneous removal of vertical support for the height over which freefall occurs.

In The NIST FINAL REPORT on the WTC7 COLLAPSE, after receiving compelling argument from those in the public who refused to accept such a blatant coverup of the truth, they finally conceded that indeed, there was a period in which WTC7 underwent a freefall collapse.

From the NIST final report, NIST NCSTAR 1A pg.45;"...a freefall descent over approximately eight stories at gravitational acceleration for approximately 2.25 seconds"

For 2.25 seconds, WTC7, as a whole, dropped at freefall speed, through 8 stories of zero structural resistance.

Supposedly, according to the NIST final theory, WTC7, which had a footprint covering a whole city block, had 8 stories of vertical support, instantly removed as the direct consequence of office cubicle fires.

And supposedly, according to the great OCTer minds here, those who doubt the credibility of such a claim need to have their heads examined?

That is not funny.

It reveals how sick the denial of the Official Conspiracy Theory believers really is.

MM

 

[Grizzly Bear]

One has to wonder if this incomprehension about lack of structural support has to = explosive demolition means that every failure mode of structures ever taught to engineers is absolutely pointless because any failure outside of blowing the thing up to them doesn't ever exist...

 

[lapman]

What you refuse to grasp is that I know the NIST version of the collapse progression. All the exterior columns all failed within a second of each other [NIST says 2 sec] allowing the upper portion to fall straight down for ~100 feet. Had the exterior columns not been removed on 7 to 8 floors simultaneously, the top part would not have fallen straight down. Something falling at FFA is falling absolutely straight down.

What you fail to grasp is that "within a second" is not simultaneous. At least in the real world. If the columns were "removed" as you claim, the FFA would have started immediately, not 1 second after the start of the exterior wall collapse. In other words, if the columns were removed, how could they provide resistance for the first second?

"It can't be because there was no boom-boom."

I don't know what your world is like, but in the real world, the boom-boom is a part of every single CD by explosives that has ever been done.

This threadbare denial tactic has been disproven but you just deny the evidence presented to you.

Your threadbare tactic of handwaving away evidence and absolute belief in fantasy is irrefutable proof that you have no interest in the truth.

 

[lapman]

Ashley hears the explosions starting at 3:31 and turns her head at 3:33. The crowd reacts to the falling building at 3:38
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhoNYj9_fg&feature=player_embedded

More blatant stupidity on Chandlers part. Where he claims that the building hasn't fell at 4:13, there is a wall of dust traveling down the street. So the "explosions" were the sound of the building collapsing. Again, this is what a real CD by explosives sounds like.

 

[triforcharity]

Please.
The sounds of explosions were picked up on Ashley Banfield's mic. All the videos were made several blocks away using directional mics designed to pick up what is a few inches in front of them. Very little is picked up from the sides.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhoNYj9_fg&feature=player_embedded

You have no idea how the building could be rigged so stop pretending that you do.
There are over a thousand different types of explosives. [at 18:00]
We control noise levels [at 18:20]
[FONT=&quot]http://www.weloo.com/videos/66410/dc---911-mysteries-part-1-demolitions-2of3wmv.html[/FONT]

You will deny that there are sounds of explosions as you deny all evidence of explosives. No worries mate. I know you are in denial. I am presenting the truth to those who read this but don't post.

Cranial rectal inversion still bothering you eh?

Anyway, Ashley's microphone picked up the sound of the collapse, but not these supposed explosions? Right....Cranial rectal inversion. Gotcha.

How about the rest of what I said? You know, seismic, physical, hundreds of eyewitnesses hearing the blast at the same exact time.......

On a side note, I was up very early this morning, and none other than CDI was actually taking down an old smokestack about 30 miles from where I was at. I heard the boom this morning, as I was driving to the beach. And they only used a small amount to notch the towers. Here is the article.

http://www.floridatoday.com/article...nt-smokestacks-topple-during-demolition-VIDEO

30 miles away, and I still heard it. Awesome, it really was.

But yet, people within EYESHOT of 7WTC didn't hear squat.

 

[triforcharity]

Hogwash. You have no idea how much the sound could be muffled so stop claiming you do.

Neither do you. And I can tell you, it's not enough to make it silent....

 

[fess]

I see that some are still claiming that some kinds of explosives were used in brining down WTC7. I find this amusing in that when they are pressed to provide proof of such a claim, they ramble on and on with all sorts on nonsensical mish mash. They fail to look at the evidence that shows no distinctive fingerprints that are present when explosives are used, actually come to light, none at all.
Some, for reasons unknown, still claim the building came straight down, which is false. The building fell to the south, if one looks closely at the videos. If the south side of the building fell first, would it not pull the north side with it? Several videos show this sequence.

 

[GlennB]

What you fail to grasp is that "within a second" is not simultaneous. At least in the real world. If the columns were "removed" as you claim, the FFA would have started immediately, not 1 second after the start of the exterior wall collapse. In other words, if the columns were removed, how could they provide resistance for the first second?

Chris has avoided this point before, and he'll ignore it again. His 8-storey, 600+ column CD would have to begin after collapse initiation, which is pretty funny when you stop to think about it.

It would mean suffcient charges to demolish the building anyway, raising the question "why add these 600 others?"

As the only explanation we've had for the purpose of the WTC7 CD is destruction of incriminating evidence in financial fraud cases, then there is no reason at all. In fact it only hugely increases the chance of detection. And given that the perps had no reluctance in killing thousands and turning the main WTC area to a pile of rubble, avoidance of collateral damage around WTC7 could hardly be an issue on their minds.

 

[ozeco41]

One has to wonder if this incomprehension about lack of structural support has to = explosive demolition means that every failure mode of structures ever taught to engineers is absolutely pointless because any failure outside of blowing the thing up to them doesn't ever exist...

So I had better try to get a refund on my Engineering Degrees and my Military Demolition training???

 

[Andy_Ross]

So what has become of the Thermite/Thermate? Has that been abandoned now?

 

[excaza]

Supposedly, according to the NIST final theory, WTC7, which had a footprint covering a whole city block, had 8 stories of vertical support, instantly removed as the direct consequence of office cubicle fires.

Where does the NIST report state that the structural members were removed? Where does the NIST report state that it was instant? This is entirely your supposition, stop attributing it to NIST.