Split Thread 7WTC - controlled demolition or fire and damage induced collapse?

Christopher7 said:
I do admire your tenacity if not your honesty. :D

Have you heard this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhoNYj9_fg&feature=player_embedded
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Yes.

Hints: "like" is a simile. "explosion" is just another word for "loud noise".

Lots of people report hearing loud noises.

There were no eyewitnesses that
saw or heard noises consistent in timing,
loudness and brisance with man-made
demolition and the large number of first
responders trained to recognize the effects
of explosives saw nothing and the NYC bomb
squad dogs smelled nothing, why was more
investigation called for?

No injuries were seen by the doctors
that were caused by man-made explosives.
 
Exactly. Well put. If all the evidence points one way, and only small anomalies point the other, why one doesn't just accept what the evidence presents is beyond me. I can hop like a rabbit, eat carrots like a rabbit, and I could even dress like one, however, in the end I'm still a man no matter how much "like" a rabbit I am.

On a side note...I don't understand why CT's use mainstream news footage from that day to support their claims yet at the same time most are sure that it's run by a group of 5 "Corporations" run by "Neo-Con Zionist Jews".
 
Microphone technology aside, I'd be expecting people in the street to be jumping out of their skins when C7's 600+ explosions* ring out around the building.

* Note: all along I've been underestimating C7's CD requirement. 8 floors at some 80 columns per floor would be 600+. But of course each cut requires a pair of shaped charges, = 1,200+ total. But then he requires removal of columns, not mere severing, so that makes a pair of charges both top and bottom of each column.

Grand total 2,400+ explosions in the 130db range, most of them packed into < 2 seconds.

How does Chris fit this kind of stuff into his head ?
 
Scott Jurgenson said:
Exactly. Well put. If all the evidence points one way, and only small anomalies point the other, why one doesn't just accept what the evidence presents is beyond me. I can hop like a rabbit, eat carrots like a rabbit, and I could even dress like one, however, in the end I'm still a man no matter how much "like" a rabbit I am.
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We've pretty much been saying that from the day each of us discovered 9/11 conspiracy peddling. But like Elwood Dowd, truthers keep insisting that Harvey is there.

Scott Jurgenson said:
On a side note...I don't understand why CT's use mainstream news footage from that day to support their claims yet at the same time most are sure that it's run by a group of 5 "Corporations" run by "Neo-Con Zionist Jews".
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It's even worse than that. They claim that the news is run by NWO sympathizers, if not conspirators directly, yet turn around and claim that the news footage clearly demonstrates signs of the conspiracy. I guess the claim is made because it's convenient for no planers to leverage that into their arguments that the jet footage is doctored to make it "appear as though jets were really there" :cool: (let's ignore the eyewitnesses in that argument :rolleyes:), but I really have no idea why non no-planers also make the same claim.

Then again, it's the ability to stop and realize the contradiction that's kept me from being a truther. I think that's what's missing from the basic mental makeup of a conspiracy addict: The inability to be affected by cognitive dissonance.
 
Christopher7 said:
Have you heard this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERhoNYj9_fg&feature=player_embedded
Click to expand...

Yes. And it was even funnier this time around. Thanks. Sometimes you can't catch all of the fallacies with just a single viewing.

You believe that that is the sound of 8 stories of a 47 story building being completely removed by explosives? :confused:

We have zero evidence of explosives. We have a ton of video evidence that the penthouse fell through the building prior to the global collapse. That is a far more logical explanation for what we are hearing in the video.
 
An actual controlled demolition doesn't fall at "freefall accelleration"

Not that this will sway anyone with this delusion...
 
Since C7 ignored this question, the lurkers he is attempting to sway can clearly see that C7 is just lying. I'll restate it again:

If FFA = CD, then why do no other CDs produce FFA?
 
jaydeehess said:
"To the 'sounds of explosions' once again we run into the FACT that many loud sounds can mimic those produced by other means. For instance as a carpenter Chris probably knows that allowing a 2X6 to land flat on another 2X6 will easily create a 'gunshot' sound. No lead, no gunpowder but a sound that will make a person jump for sure.

With the damage to WTC 3,4,5,6, and 7 as it was I would be quite suprised if partial collapses of floors or walls was not taking place. These would produce very loud booms and shake the place up. In fact sometime before the dust settled from WTC 1, the SW corner of WTC 7 was destroyed. It very well could be that a large portion of a floor or column came loose 15 minutes after the impact that tore away most of what was seen to be missing after the dust settled. Same goes for WTC 3,4,5,6 all of which might easily have had internal portions give way over many minutes after initial impacts."
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Based on your reasoning jaydeehess, it stands to reason that the reverse is also possible.

You accept as plausible that the sounds of building breakdowns from WTC 3,4,5,6 & 7, could easily be mistaken as explosive booms.

By that argument, explosive booms could just as easily have been dismissed as being the sounds of building breakdowns from WTC 3,4,5,6 & 7.

MM
 
Miragememories said:
Based on your reasoning jaydeehess, it stands to reason that the reverse is also possible.

You accept as plausible that the sounds of building breakdowns from WTC 3,4,5,6 & 7, could easily be mistaken as explosive booms.

By that argument, explosive booms could just as easily have been dismissed as being the sounds of building breakdowns from WTC 3,4,5,6 & 7.

MM
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Cool. Please present evidence of CD. It's been 9 years, surely there's something other than semantic handwaving games by now. What explosives were used? How much explosives were used? Why is there no evidence of any demolition equipment? How were the explosives rigged without anyone noticing? How were they detonated without anyone noticing or being injured by the blasts?
 
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ElMondoHummus said:
Then again, it's the ability to stop and realize the contradiction that's kept me from being a truther. I think that's what's missing from the basic mental makeup of a conspiracy addict: The inability to be affected by cognitive dissonance.
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See that's just it. It's the contradictions that annoy me. In one light gage is showing the ejections of the steel beams as proof of explosions, then in another light he's saying that the eplosions, wait I'm sorry, lack of explosions is "proof" that thermite is used to cut the beams and that it's some UBER SECRET WEAPON OF THE SCARY US GOVERMENT...but found on the interwebs with a quick google search.

You know I can see Steven T Jones now sitting at home analizing the footage trying to figure out how he can make money off this. He's pondering the CD theory and can't really find evidence to support it. Then he searches other ways to cut steel beams and comes across thermite. "HOLY COW this may work" he says...hold on let me work backwards and see if this fits, hmmm wow it does!!! BOOK, DVD, BOOK, SPEAKING TOURS, I'm going to be God of the Sea People!!!

However at the same time he basically contradicts the whole movement.
 
Christopher7 said:
Wrong. Dr. Sunder is referring to FFA.

Wrong!
What part of
"[FONT=&quot]the[/FONT][FONT=&quot] north face descended at gravitational acceleration, . . . This free fall drop continued for approximately 8 stories or 32.0 m (105 ft)[/FONT]
don't you understand?

Wrong again.
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Here is Chandler's question that was read to Shyam in the video.
Chandler said:
Any number of competent measurements using a variety of methods indicate the northwest corner of WTC7 fell with an acceleration within a few percent of the acceleration of gravity. Yet your report contradicts this claiming 40% slower than free fall based on a single data point. How can such a publicly visable, easily measureable quantity get set aside?
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Christopher7,

Can you please explain Chandler's statement above that NIST contradicts the 100ft (2 sec) free fall drop on the northwest corner by stating the time of the viewable roof line drop took 40% longer than free fall.

I watched the video and I see 5.4 sec. In order for the entire roof line collapse to be considered a free fall descent, the roof line would have to have dropped out of sight in 3.9 seconds.

How is NIST's 40% slower than free fall contradicting the fact that there was 2 sec of free fall incorporated into that 5.4 sec collapse? I mean 5.4 sec -40% = 3.9 sec right?

You said yourself that 2 sec of free fall does not make the entire collapse free fall.
 
It seems to me that over the last couple of weeks we have seen the CTers move vrom claiming Thermite because of the lack of loud bangs to a position of explosives because of claims they can here some loud bangs.
Which is it?

As far as I can see there isn't any evidence of Thermite or Explosives.
 
Christopher7 said:
"Directional mics, designed to pick up what is directly in front of them a few inches away and little else, are essential for street interviews to minimize other sounds."
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triforcharity said:
"And yet, suprisingly, it still picked up the sound of the collapse....

Cranial rectal inversion is the only reason for your continued ignorance of this fact."
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Please use lots of asswipe because if anyone has "Cranial rectal inversion" it has to be you triforcharity.

Of course the directional microphone picked up some of the very intense background sound of a 47-story WTC7 collapse.

The relevant part is that the recording of that known-to-be-extremely-loud-collapse, was not particularly loud, and was largely suppressed, as were all the street sounds, sirens, traffic, voices etc.

MM
 
Captain_Swoop said:
As far as I can see there isn't any evidence of Thermite or Explosives.
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But you have never viewed the world through the eyes of the paranoral and wacky. The guy that sits behind me in the cube thinks that Dick Cheney pulled off 9/11 so that he could make more money through Halliburton (sp)by invading Iraq. I posed a few questions to him after he told me this...First, "Why say they have WMDs then? (or is it W'sOMD ha). If he was smart enough to pull off the greatest "False Flag" operation of all time, then why didn't he just plant WMDs in Iraq or say "The reason we're going to Iraq is because Sadam planned 9/11"

So why not go on to fake 2 videos of him claiming responsibility by using a double or paying him to do it as a CIA asset...because we know it's possible right? The Osama videos were created by the CIA so it's possible...right?
Also he could have planted passports in a bunch of Sadams associates pockets and made them fly planes into other buildings, hell why not even plant one at Ground Zero, just like he did for the other Hijackers.

I mean if you start to put all their "Theories" together in one Coherent statement, it gets zainier and zainer by the minute. I think that's why I have yet to see someone write a paper that doesn't just point out "anomalies" but says "this is what happened and how it happened".

Please keep on-topic. Thanks.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Gaspode
 
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Miragememories said:
Please use lots of asswipe because if anyone has "Cranial rectal inversion" it has to be you triforcharity.

Of course the directional microphone picked up some of the very intense background sound of a 47-story WTC7 collapse.

The relevant part is that the recording of that known-to-be-extremely-loud-collapse, was not particularly loud, and was largely suppressed, as were all the street sounds, sirens, traffic, voices etc.

MM
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And yet, the much louder noise of demolition charges wasn't picked up, even though the collapse was. Why is that?

Answer: Because it wasn't there to pick up. There were no demolition charges.
 
BigAl said:
There is nothing on audio or video tape.
Click to expand...
Denial

No eyewitnesses saw or heard noises consistent in timing, loudness and brisance with man-made demolition
Click to expand...
Assumption

A large number of first responders were trained to recognize the effects of explosives and saw nothing
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Assumption

the NYC bomb squad dogs smelled nothing
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Source? The source posted before was an anonymous poster. That is worthless. Is there a document or a few verifiable news reports with names dates and places?

No eyewitnesses have joined the "Truth Movement".
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Denial
 
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