'6th Sense'

[Horatius]

Sure, but there are still two big problems with that. Firstly, it's still obvious that the students don't actually get hurt too badly any more than they get killed. If the sensei is genuinely trying to hurt them a lot, he's seriously incompetent. And if he's not, then obviously he didn't have that intention either. This is really a fundamental problem with the claim, since anyone who was actually any good at hitting people who actually had the intention to do serious harm would in fact manage to do serious harm. If the intentions being picked up are simply the intention to swing but not actually hurt anyone too badly, that's a more reasonable claim, but this then falls foul of the second problem:

Which is that it's not actually what is claimed. When discussing people's claims, it often needs to be pointed out that we have to address what they actually claim, not what we think they should claim. This is a particular problem in the Challenge section, but it applies in general discussions as well. If a person says that they can talk with dead people and find out what they died of, it doesn't matter that this obviously means they should be able to find the gender of the person and that that would be an easier test, if that's not what they claim, it's not what gets tested. In this case, the claim is that acomplished martial artists can sense the intention to kill. Not the intention to hurt. Not the intention to swing and pull it at the last moment. Kill. And this claim is trivially false, because they don't actually kill anyone.

As I say, the questions of where this kind of belief comes from, discussion of more plausible similar beliefs and possible ways of testing them all are interesting matters for discussion, but they won't change the fact that the original claim is still false. In addition, it would be impossible to test the original claim, since unless the testee could sense the intention 100% of the time (and be similarly successful in getting out the way) such a test would result in deaths.

Well, sure, if you want to be all logical about it!

I'm just looking for an excuse to smack ninja in the head!

 

[arthwollipot]

I'm just looking for an excuse to smack ninja in the head!

Heh heh. That is a powerful motivator, indeed.

People have been discussing the "intention to kill" or the "intention to hurt you a lot". But what about simply the "intention to strike"? As I posted before, there is a very noticable difference between someone throwing a blow that is intended to hit, and one that is not. It all depends on the claim. If the claim is that the ninja can sense the hostility, then an intention to cause harm would be a necessary part of the test - which would mean that a failed result would cause real harm. Clearly this is not an option. But if the ninja's claim is that they can sense the intention to strike, this would be testable. It's a shame that the OP hasn't come back, or we'd be able to clear this up.

 

[Stout]

People have been discussing the "intention to kill" or the "intention to hurt you a lot". But what about simply the "intention to strike"?

Sure, if you want to be all logical about it

One thin that struck me as being beyond odd about this whole thing.

This was supposedly, historically, done with a "real" sword ??

So you're a ninja sensi whose spent years training a student and brought them up to a competent level. Why on earth would you even think about doing that student irreparable damage and negating all your hard work, not to mention destroying the relationship you've built up with that student in some stupid test.

Call me a wuss, but were I a 4th Dan ninja back in the old days, I'd be sick on testing day especially if I'd seen the fallout ( read corpses ) of those that had taken the test before me.

Might the "real" sword just be an urban legend ?

 

[arthwollipot]

Might the "real" sword just be an urban legend ?

Translation - the whole test is a great big wank. No-one's disputing that.

But it would be interesting to find out whether the student is actually sensing the physical effects of the attack, or whether there indeed is some mystical "sixth sense" coming into play.

 

[Stout]

But it would be interesting to find out whether the student is actually sensing the physical effects of the attack, or whether there indeed is some mystical "sixth sense" coming into play.

Well, since the test is "supposed" to demonstrate the application of a sixth sense my guess is it's designed to give the student increased confidence by "telling" them that they do indeed have super powers.

Now, I've never seen any of these super powers demonstrated IRL. Hey, remember all the super powers stuff that *used* to revolve around fire walking ? Then along comes the Discovery Channel with their physics, and blows all that woo out of the water.

Suddenly, there's a drop in interest in fire walking. I haven't seen it advertised in years.

I'm going with the physical effects and all the attendant descriptions of those effects outlined in this thread with the magic being relegated to the realm of wishful thinking.

Maybe the ninja will take the tack that the reiki people did. There's forces at work here that science is outright "unable" to detect...you HAVE to believe.. or "you are the weakest link"

 

[Delvo]

This was supposedly, historically, done with a "real" sword ??

No, at least not as such a routine for so many students. The current grandmaster and sole administrator of this test, Masaaki Hatsumi, is said to have had it done to him by the previous grandmaster, Tosutshiga Takamatsu, with a real sword, without warning. He was just sitting there eating or drinking something and suddenly felt the need to duck and roll, then realized what the reason was. So these tests are (at most) controlled re-enactments of one particular event, not the carrying on of a tradition.

 

[scottbaioisdead]

While in Iraq (This occured in December of 2004) I was in mosul we had just landed doing aircraft security from Qatar, i was in the chow hall eating with my partner and felt something strange, i told him we needed to go now, and i made him leave with me and we went back to our plane. by the time we got back to the flight line the chow hall blew up. someone had snuck pieces of explosives on base over a long period of time and put a bomb together in the chow hall....

so did i just get lucky? or is it safe to admit there is more to it than we know?

so you're Danny

 

[Autolite]

I have a question and I am trying to get some educated feedback as to what others may think on this matter.

I know that this person would most likely never agree to take the $1Mil dollar challenge, I am mostly looking to verify this ability.

I study Bujinkan Ninjutsu (Pretty much its old Ninja and Samurai martial arts)
There is nothing really all too mystical about it... and it really works.
But,
I order to receive a 5th Degree Blackbelt, we must take a test. The student kneels on the floor with eyes closed, the Grandmaster stands behind you and cuts down as fast as he can with a sword. The goal is to feel his intent to kill you and roll out of the way without getting cut.
It is not a trick, it is not timed out, you can't play with it and always get it right.
It has been performed outside and inside in different environments, sometimes he yells during the test, most of the time he does not.

So for skeptics out there, what could this be?
Or would you agree that this really is a 6th Sense or not?

If you would like to view some of these tests just search on Youtube for Bujinkan (godan / 5th Dan / Sakki tests) and you will be able to see some of these tests that have been performed.

Actually, I too have a "sixth sense" and it tells me to avoid participation in idiotic rituals. Go figure...