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5G Mobile Technology

catsmate said:
Yes. I am part of the Digital Docklands project and have used fixed and mobile 5G for nearly a year. I have FWA at home, in a customer site office and in a satellite office, in addition to mobile devices. FWA speed is typically >1Gb/s.

5G's main difference is the use of higher frequencies (shorter wavelengths) than before: >30GHz rather than <6GHz.
This means it can provide far greater bandwidth, but also greater directionality, and that antennae can be much smaller than for previous generations of cellular base stations.
With more, more directional, antennae per base station car more client devices can be supported.
All this means lower energy levels are used, potentially improving battery life for portables.

However high frequencies means shorter range, hence more base stations, but also more redundancy in the mesh. Some of the frequencies used are susceptible to water scattering and absorption.

There are also two other less noticeable changes; smarter bandwidth utilisation and software defined base units. The former means 5G nets are better able to make use of the available RF and prioritise traffic for efficiency. The later means fewer hardware deployments and changes in the future, useful given the number of units.

Hope this helps.
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Thanks, yes it does help.

Here in this part of the US, there has an amazing amount of hype, and misinformation on 5G. As a reader of Ars Technica, I get some chance to see beyond the hype.

I remember one article, on handsets, which pointed out just how far they had to go to be even close to today’s non-5G ones, by a wide range of metrics. And another on the huge gulf between the claims of connection speeds and the reality (these are all trials, so not unexpected results).

Here’s a key point the OP seems to have missed: the wavelength/frequency of “5G” is just one part of the constellation of standards etc. Some of which have a long history, e.g. software defined radios.
 
MattNelson said:
Would y'all care to elaborate on your spam? Any constructive criticism?
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If you want to rail against the potential dangers of widespread use of electromagnetic radiation (EMR) in particular bands, then say so, explicitly.

Alternatively, if your beef is with the use of a particular set of mobile standards as enablers for an astonishingly insecure IoT infrastructure, say so explicitly.

Etc.

Reading between your lines, it seems you have a thing about EMR.
 
MattNelson said:
Would y'all care to elaborate on your spam? Any constructive criticism?
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What "spam" would that be? My reference to you pasting a bunch of irelevent links, that you've not actually evaluated...

MattNelson said:
Protesting 5G around the world<gibbersnip>
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So you've abandoned any pretense of reasoned debate in favour of videos of idiots ranting about things they don't understand?
:rolleyes:
 
JeanTate said:
Thanks, yes it does help.

Here in this part of the US, there has an amazing amount of hype, and misinformation on 5G. As a reader of Ars Technica, I get some chance to see beyond the hype.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, the hype is thick. However the reality is interesting and bandwidth improvement of 20x are probable.
Dual mode handsets will be expensive and some manufacturers/designers are going to hold off on the electronics for a refresh cycle.

JeanTate said:
I remember one article, on handsets, which pointed out just how far they had to go to be even close to today’s non-5G ones, by a wide range of metrics.
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:confused: In what way? Mostly of the 5G prototypes are basically the same handset.
I have two preprods on my desk from a certain major player. One has prototype 5G radios and the other doesn't. The software is pretty much exactly the same, excluding the updates I haven't done.

JeanTate said:
And another on the huge gulf between the claims of connection speeds and the reality (these are all trials, so not unexpected results).
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That I would disagree with. I was highly skeptical initially (I've been in the ICT game for twenty five years) but the FWA speeds are on a par with high-end fibre connections.

JeanTate said:
Here’s a key point the OP seems to have missed: the wavelength/frequency of “5G” is just one part of the constellation of standards etc. Some of which have a long history, e.g. software defined radios.
Click to expand...
The main differences, other than the transmission frequencies, are down to software. Better baseline protocols for cellular comms were long overdue.

SDRs aren't new tech but recent developments have made them very useful at last; multiple transmitters operating with very little interference, despite frequency and physical overlap. Far better, on-device, signal lock and the vast possibilities opened by 'cognitive meshing' with adaptive frequency hopping and cooperation between base units. Pretty amazing stuff compared to the 4G rollout of only a few years ago.
 
Thanks.

catsmate said:
Ah yes, the hype is thick. However the reality is interesting and bandwidth improvement of 20x are probable.
Dual mode handsets will be expensive and some manufacturers/designers are going to hold off on the electronics for a refresh cycle.
Click to expand...
From your posts I get the impression that 5G is doing better in at least parts of Europe than here in the US. And from the Chinese press, it’s doing well in big cities like Shanghai.

It’s been too long since I was directly involved in mobile, so I now rely on sources like ars technica to strip away the hype.

:confused: In what way? Mostly of the 5G prototypes are basically the same handset.
I have two preprods on my desk from a certain major player. One has prototype 5G radios and the other doesn't. The software is pretty much exactly the same, excluding the updates I haven't done.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I can’t now find the ars article I was impressed by. From memory: the 5G chips are much bigger, and are not integrated (Qualcomm chips, not Huawei). The handsets drain the battery much faster. The form factor is challenging, due to the need for many antennas and “windows”; the handsets are quite a bit bigger and heavier.

That I would disagree with. I was highly skeptical initially (I've been in the ICT game for twenty five years) but the FWA speeds are on a par with high-end fibre connections.
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In carefully stage managed tests, sure. The ars writers who did their own testing, at some trial sites in the US, reported very, um, underwhelming results. Maybe it’ll all work out? However, so far it seems hype rather than reality rules. At least here in the US.

The main differences, other than the transmission frequencies, are down to software. Better baseline protocols for cellular comms were long overdue.

SDRs aren't new tech but recent developments have made them very useful at last; multiple transmitters operating with very little interference, despite frequency and physical overlap. Far better, on-device, signal lock and the vast possibilities opened by 'cognitive meshing' with adaptive frequency hopping and cooperation between base units. Pretty amazing stuff compared to the 4G rollout of only a few years ago.
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At the time I first learned of SDRs, well over a decade ago, the specialists wrote good technical papers on their potential benefits. However, they clearly stated that the then current technology - mostly what you could reasonably do with/on silicon - could not deliver. So cool that the promise is now being realized! :)
 
MattNelson said:
AT&T:
Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, Dallas, Houston, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Louisville, Oklahoma City, New Orleans, San Antonio and Waco, Texas -- recently added are: Austin, Los Angeles, Nashville, Orlando, San Diego, San Francisco, and San Jose
(source: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech...t-seven-new-cities-total-rises-19/3409787002/ )
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I have an AT&T Samsung Galaxy S9+, and I recently flew from Indianapolis to Florida, changing planes in Charlotte. I didn't try streaming any videos, because I'd run down my phone playing Angry Birds 2 on the shuttle from Fort Wayne, and the chargers they had by the gates were abysmally slow. But for texting and regular Internet use, I didn't really notice much difference; maybe a slight increase in Internet speed, and no connection problems.
 
JeanTate said:
From your posts I get the impression that 5G is doing better in at least parts of Europe than here in the US. And from the Chinese press, it’s doing well in big cities like Shanghai.
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Dublin and Dubai were the first trials sites. there's a lot of dense, high tech, sites in both.

JeanTate said:
It’s been too long since I was directly involved in mobile, so I now rely on sources like ars technica to strip away the hype.
Click to expand...
And the tech refuses to stand still. Annoying...

JeanTate said:
Unfortunately, I can’t now find the ars article I was impressed by. From memory: the 5G chips are much bigger, and are not integrated (Qualcomm chips, not Huawei). The handsets drain the battery much faster. The form factor is challenging, due to the need for many antennas and “windows”; the handsets are quite a bit bigger and heavier.
Click to expand...
The handsets I've used (three from major players, all Android) all have battery life comparable to 4G. In one case I had two versions of an unreleased phone, one 5G and one not, and the battery life was within 20%.
However (caveat) this was without much of the network switching that will impact handset life. I was using them mainly in 5G dense locations.

My expectation is that battery life will be lower, due to the extra radios and the switching. Manufacturers are dealing with this in the expected way...

JeanTate said:
In carefully stage managed tests, sure. The ars writers who did their own testing, at some trial sites in the US, reported very, um, underwhelming results. Maybe it’ll all work out? However, so far it seems hype rather than reality rules. At least here in the US.
Click to expand...
Europe and Asia have more density of metropolitan centres. 5G will work better. They also tend to have bettwe, and better supported, underlying infrastructure.

JeanTate said:
At the time I first learned of SDRs, well over a decade ago, the specialists wrote good technical papers on their potential benefits. However, they clearly stated that the then current technology - mostly what you could reasonably do with/on silicon - could not deliver. So cool that the promise is now being realized! :)
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Yeah, quite improvement in materials science are delivering on the promises. Maybe I should have stuck with MatSci.
 
Thanks! :)

catsmate said:
Dublin and Dubai were the first trials sites. there's a lot of dense, high tech, sites in both.


And the tech refuses to stand still. Annoying...


The handsets I've used (three from major players, all Android) all have battery life comparable to 4G. In one case I had two versions of an unreleased phone, one 5G and one not, and the battery life was within 20%.
However (caveat) this was without much of the network switching that will impact handset life. I was using them mainly in 5G dense locations.

My expectation is that battery life will be lower, due to the extra radios and the switching. Manufacturers are dealing with this in the expected way...
Click to expand...
I found the ars technica article; it is dated 14 December, 2018 (so somewhat dated): Don’t buy a 5G smartphone—at least, not for a while

I wonder if the same Qualcomm chips are still used in the latest handsets. Also, whether you have any experience with what's covered in the article.

Europe and Asia have more density of metropolitan centres. 5G will work better. They also tend to have bettwe, and better supported, underlying infrastructure.


Yeah, quite improvement in materials science are delivering on the promises. Maybe I should have stuck with MatSci.
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I get the impression that the US is certainly not in the lead, on 5G ...
 
MattNelson said:
5G Must Be Stopped
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Yes well where I live 5G towers are being torn/burned down as ppl dont want them here!!!!

This really isnt very good!!
 
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