"5 stupid things about atheists"

[Leumas]

I can't open Cracked on this computer, but yeah, about that, why and when did the whole "whiney misogynistic internet neckbeard" movement become associated with atheism? I constantly see those people smearing their feces all over every part of the internet, but they usually stick to bashing women and feminists (and occasionally gays and minorities). Now, I know atheism is simply lack of belief, and atheists can be as dumb as anyone else, but given those guys' generally far-right views and their obsessive lady hate, I sort of expected the movement as a whole to lean toward religion rather than atheism...

Who cares about what some people say or write on the internet or even in the media.

What matters is the REAL STUFF that is being done in the Supreme Court and in Congress and White House and Local Governments and so on and so forth in REAL WORLD affairs.

Have a look at this post for a litany of not NASTY REAL WORLD activities that theists are doing right now.

 

[Beelzebuddy]

A theist cannot consider evidence which might undermine their belief because doubt and belief are antithetical in the view of most religions, unlike the atheist who lacks a belief to be undermined in the first place and can entertain evidence without fear of repercussion or censure.

Hence the inevitability of "rude" and "dismissive".

While doubt and belief are antithetical to most religions, most theists don't believe that. They can (and will) object to the mere fact that you think they're wrong, because you're probably among the first to actually say so to them, but will generally concede when you point out that they think the same thing about you. Then you have a chance at something like an actual discussion, where all you really need to do is explain how a world view without a big ol' beard in the sky can actually work.

On the other hand, if you lead with "your god is cruel and stupid and you are stupid for believing in it," well, they're going to clam up and you'll both be wasting your respective time, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

You can get some good examples of the latter from most any thread in this forum.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

I can't open Cracked on this computer, but yeah, about that, why and when did the whole "whiney misogynistic internet neckbeard" movement become associated with atheism? I constantly see those people smearing their feces all over every part of the internet, but they usually stick to bashing women and feminists (and occasionally gays and minorities). Now, I know atheism is simply lack of belief, and atheists can be as dumb as anyone else, but given those guys' generally far-right views and their obsessive lady hate, I sort of expected the movement as a whole to lean toward religion rather than atheism...

Anything "nerdy" gets that label, really. So, atheists, gamers, MRAs, libertarians...all that stuff. There's nothing nerdy about religion. Male feminists get the "whiney Internet neckbeard" label, too. (They just leave off the "misogynistic" part.)

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I might fail it...

I would just for the fun of it. I actually got to "sit on the other side of the curtain" and talk to some of Eugene Spafford's young men a few years decades back.

 

[quadraginta]

cruel[/B] and stupid and you are stupid for believing in it," well, they're going to clam up and you'll both be wasting your respective time, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy.

<snip>

Down here in SouthernBaptistLand (a third or more of the U.S.) the simple admission of a lack of belief in their god is sufficient not only to brand you as rude and etc., but also probably a Commie and maybe a prevert (sic).

There's no middle ground to be found.

I've brought this up before, but as an example, in NC when the Liddy Dole Senatorial re-election campaign merely suggested in an ad that her rival Kay Hagen had possibly had fund-raisers who might have associated with atheists it was considered such a despicably low blow that a sure-thing conservative incumbent in a red state was tossed out of office because of the outrage by conservative voters.

Good thing for her she was a Sunday school teacher, or it might have stuck.

And NC is considered one of the more moderate states in the South.

 

[quadraginta]

This is not my experience with any but a very few theists I've ever met. Even those who stop me in the street to try to convert me usually end up conceding points and coming away with a respect for my position after a friendly conversation with me.

Lucky you. Wherever you're living you should be grateful.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Lucky you. Wherever you're living you should be grateful.

I'm grateful for many things about my life.

The point is, though, that it's a mistake to take your own limited experience and extrapolate that out to "most if not all believers".

 

[Tommy Jeppesen]

I'm grateful for many things about my life.

The point is, though, that it's a mistake to take your own limited experience and extrapolate that out to "most if not all believers".

No, you don't get it This is not the International Skeptics Form. This is the "Some Atheists Forum And If You Don't Think/Feel Like Us, You Are Delusional Forum". If you don't get that, you are delusional At least in RP

 

[quadraginta]

I'm grateful for many things about my life.

The point is, though, that it's a mistake to take your own limited experience and extrapolate that out to "most if not all believers".

It's a mistake to assume my experience is limited. I haven't always lived down here in SouthernBaptistLand.

I was raised Episcopalian in a church which was progressive enough that the very first rock and roll "Electric Liturgy" in the country (and possibly the world) was held there in 1968. The Mind Garage^WP, perhaps the first Christian Rock band, performing. I was an altar server at that church.

Subsequently, over the ensuing more than four and a half decades, I have lived in quite a few different places, with believers ranging from quiet to faith-on-sleeve.

I think I have sufficient experience to make a valid assessment. At least as valid as most other people. Possibly more than most.

On what do you base your assumption that I don't?

 

[Tommy Jeppesen]

It's a mistake to assume my experience is limited. I haven't always lived down here in SouthernBaptistLand.

I was raised Episcopalian in a church which was progressive enough that the very first rock and roll "Electric Liturgy" in the country (and possibly the world) was held there in 1968. The Mind Garage^WP, perhaps the first Christian Rock band, performing. I was an altar server at that church.

Subsequently, over the ensuing more than four and a half decades, I have lived in quite a few different places, with believers ranging from quiet to faith-on-sleeve.

I think I have sufficient experience to make a valid assessment. At least as valid as most other people. Possibly more than most.

On what do you base your assumption that I don't?

You live in the USA. The USA is not the world.

 

[The Greater Fool]

While I was in Bibleland (Tennessee) it was not unusual for office chit chat to include the wonders of last nights bible study. I would say 1 in 7 people had bibles open on their desks.

In some 'if I could change the world' discussion, said "If I were god, I would..." and was immediately pounced on by the group that that was blasphemy. "Evil Atheists" was a topic of conversation at least once a month.

Talking atheism was not in the cards.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

It's a mistake to assume my experience is limited. I haven't always lived down here in SouthernBaptistLand.

I was raised Episcopalian in a church which was progressive enough that the very first rock and roll "Electric Liturgy" in the country (and possibly the world) was held there in 1968. The Mind Garage^WP, perhaps the first Christian Rock band, performing. I was an altar server at that church.

Subsequently, over the ensuing more than four and a half decades, I have lived in quite a few different places, with believers ranging from quiet to faith-on-sleeve.

I think I have sufficient experience to make a valid assessment. At least as valid as most other people. Possibly more than most.

On what do you base your assumption that I don't?

There are 7bn people on the surface of this planet. Your experience of what they think will necessarily be limited.

 

[MG1962]

While I was in Bibleland (Tennessee) it was not unusual for office chit chat to include the wonders of last nights bible study. I would say 1 in 7 people had bibles open on their desks.

In some 'if I could change the world' discussion, said "If I were god, I would..." and was immediately pounced on by the group that that was blasphemy. "Evil Atheists" was a topic of conversation at least once a month.

Talking atheism was not in the cards.

A company I worked for in Kansas had a very interesting rule about these types of discussions. You could talk about anything, nothing was off limit, until someone felt they were being attacked over their point of view.

We actually had some great chats in my team that consisted of fundamental Christians all the way through to practicing pagans, and three atheists. The only time things got weird was when one of fundamentalists and Catholics got into it about dinosaurs.

And if anyone wants to join a faith with a sense of humor I highly recommend Pagans, absolute riot

 

[dudalb]

I think the kind of mindless Rage Against Religon you see an awful lot of on the Internet is totally useless. Religion is a complex subject ,and to simplify it to "RELIGON IT BAD!" is reductionism at it's worst.
And I am a total non believer in religons.

 

[MG1962]

I think the kind of mindless Rage Against Religon you see an awful lot of on the Internet is totally useless. Religion is a complex subject ,and to simplify it to "RELIGON IT BAD!" is reductionism at it's worst.
And I am a total non believer in religons.

I think the mindless rage you see in general on the internet is counter productive. And the media is not helping. Even as a Theist this whole war on Christmas has seriously gotten old

 

[Leumas]

I think the kind of mindless Rage Against Religon you see an awful lot of on the Internet is totally useless. Religion is a complex subject ,and to simplify it to "RELIGON IT BAD!" is reductionism at it's worst.And I am a total non believer in religons.

Murder is a very complex thing it is bad for some and good for others.

If X murders Y he is harming Y and his family and his employers and his friends and his insurance agents etc.

On the other hand X benefits and X's family and friends and car dealer.

Also when Y's family catches X, lawyers galore benefit and the Judge and the court system and the owners of the prison and the suppliers of the prison and eventually the makers of the chemicals that will kill X.

And that eventual incarceration and execution also harms X' faily and friends and car dealer .... but it will also have a cathartic effect for Y's family and friends but not so much his insurance agent.

And the DA may eventually run for governor and governor for senator and the senator for President and the President will benefit by retiring and having less grey hairs and more overt endorsement money.

So you see murder is a very complex thing with numerous obvious and hidden nuances and intricacies that boggle the mind with many people benefiting and many people harmed.

Would it be reductionism at it's worst if we simplify it to "MURDER IS BAD!"?

Can I use "MURDER IS BAD" when I tell X's children not to follow in their father's steps.... can I say "MURDER IS BAD" when I tell Y's children about it?

What if X is never caught and his children inherit his ill acquired wealth from killing X.... do I have any chance of convincing them that "MURDER IS BAD" despite them living in the luxuries that were acquired through murder?

 

[arthwollipot]

Also, I read a response to the Cracked article this morning which said basically the same things you guys have been saying, but I can't find it now. I thought it was on Friendly Atheist, but it was very early in the morning.

 

[quadraginta]

You live in the USA. The USA is not the world.

I was talking about the U.S., not the world.

But since you bring it up, do you suppose the rest of the world as a whole (not merely Western European cultures and derivatives) is more, less, or equally religiously devout and conservative as compared to the U.S.?

Using gay marriage (or even just gay sex) and abortion as litmus tests I wonder what the average is?

 

[quadraginta]

There are 7bn people on the surface of this planet. Your experience of what they think will necessarily be limited.

As would be your own.

This does not mean that it is not possible to make informed judgements about places not directly experienced.

Is it your opinion that the majority of the 7bn people on the surface of the planet are generally more religiously progressive than those in the U.S.?

What experience do you base your opinion on?

Why do you think it is superior to my own?

 

[MG1962]

But since you bring it up, do you suppose the rest of the world as a whole (not merely Western European cultures and derivatives) is more, less, or equally religiously devout and conservative as compared to the U.S.?

With the exception of South Vietnam before the war and Ireland, the US is virtually unique in the connection between conservatism and Christian religious devotion.

In most countries, especially Catholic dominated Christian countries, there have been close links with socialism and lesser social justice movements.