$499 Mac?

[NoZed Avenger]

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0412expo2.html

With iPod-savvy Windows users clearly in its sights, Apple is expected to announce a bare bones, G4-based iMac without a display at Macworld Expo on January 11 that will retail for $499, highly reliable sources have confirmed to Think Secret.

The one thing that has always kept me from considering a mac is the price. Forcing you to buy a monitor never helped, either.

This is interesting.

 

[Theodore Kurita]

I love my MAC.

Trust me, once you start using mac's, you'll never want to go back. I absolutely love the command lin It is true that Mac's only have support for OpenGL, which means not a whole lot of gaming. Although, you can get World of Warcraft for it.

There have been rumors of the $499.00 headless mac since last September on various Macintosh forums.

Apple is really REALLY wanting to gain more marketshare once again, and it looks like they are finally becoming competitive once again.

Lets hope that Apple is able to gain at least 15% of the home computer market again. Since Apple has been able to redeem themselves as a viable competitor via ITunes and the IPod, it wouldn't suprise me at all if they did actually gain back more of the market.

 

[Ian Osborne]

Seconded. You pay for what you get, and Macs are a superior product. They're more stable, more user-friendly and suffer fewer hacker/virus attacks. I've had my iMac for around five years now, and am about to upgrade to a G5. I would never switch to a PC as a main machine.

 

[Theodore Kurita]

Also, if you do get a Mac, just do some poking around with it.

There are lots of fun things you can do with a Macintosh.

Also, if you download VLC media Player for your Apple, you will have no excuses left to not join in on the Mac revolution.

VLC media player is a completely open source project, that has produced amazing results. You can literally play any media file type with it, including things like OGG VORBIS formats, DivX, and various other media formats.

Mac is superior to the PC, ot doubt about it.

 

[Donks]

Also, if you do get a Mac, just do some poking around with it.

There are lots of fun things you can do with a Macintosh.

Also, if you download VLC media Player for your Apple, you will have no excuses left to not join in on the Mac revolution.

VLC media player is a completely open source project, that has produced amazing results. You can literally play any media file type with it, including things like OGG VORBIS formats, DivX, and various other media formats.

Mac is superior to the PC, ot doubt about it.

I could never live with a Mac. I like gaming too much. But I would love to set my parents up with one each. Maybe that way I'd get less emails about how to use their glorified typewriter/emailer properly. Oh, and VLC is cross platform. Available as precompiled binaries for Windows, MacOSX, and the main linuxes.

 

[Iconoclast]

Mac is superior to the PC, ot doubt about it.

They seem to have a funny keyboard layout though...

 

[richardm]

... and not enough buttons on the mouse.

 

[CFLarsen]

Mac is superior to the PC, ot doubt about it.

If the Mac is so superior, why does it have such a minuscule market share?

PC users are just stupid? Bill Gates is the Devil Incarnate? It's all a big conspiracy?

 

[Darat]

Always loved the design of Macs, otherwise never been that impressed with them.

The thing that always amazed me about Apple and Macs was the complete and utter incompetence they made of their OSs and especially their upgrades over the years. Considering it was a "closed shop" upgrades etc. should have been as smooth as a baby's bottom, instead they always ended up making a mess much like what comes out of a baby's bottom.

Is a $499 Mac (presumably cut down spec?) without a screen a competitive price in comparison to what $499 can buy you in the PC world?

 

[richardm]

.. On a slight derail, Santa left a nice new iPod for my wife this Christmas. We've actually discussed (once) the idea of having a little iBook running iTunes permanently connected to our stereo as a sort of jukebox. If this little cut-down version is as titchy as described it might actually be quite a neat solution.

If, that is, it was retailing at $499 properly converted to Pounds Sterling - i.e. about 260 of them. Unfortunately it seems highly probable that it'll be £499 quid, in which case it would be farcical.

Edited to add: Why an iBook rather than anything else? Well, simply because they look quite nice, and wouldn't be too out-of-place in my living room.

 

[Theodore Kurita]

If the Mac is so superior, why does it have such a minuscule market share?

PC users are just stupid? Bill Gates is the Devil Incarnate? It's all a big conspiracy?

The X86 (PC) format is liked much more by coders because the architecture makes up for small errors in programs.

I wouldn't call PC users stupid, especially if they are gamers, considering that Mac gaming isn't all that great because developers don't release alot of products for it.

Bill Gates basically got to the table first with IBM and that is why Microsoft did so well.

Also, PC's do well because it relies on 3rd Party Hardware, which is generally cheaper due to competition.

Apple would still have a dominant market share if they actually decided to sell individual components and begin 3rd party support.

Alas, they have not done so, hopefully they will change their ways at some point.

 

[CFLarsen]

The X86 (PC) format is liked much more by coders because the architecture makes up for small errors in programs.

So, the Mac has an inferior architecture. I agree.

I wouldn't call PC users stupid, especially if they are gamers, considering that Mac gaming isn't all that great because developers don't release alot of products for it.

And the only reason is a low market share.

Bill Gates basically got to the table first with IBM and that is why Microsoft did so well.

That is a far too simplistic view. You cannot ignore that Microsoft is also a very clever and agressive company, extremely set on succeeding.

Also, PC's do well because it relies on 3rd Party Hardware, which is generally cheaper due to competition.

Very true. Having a Mac is equivalent to owning a car which you can only buy a certain kind of gas for.

Apple would still have a dominant market share if they actually decided to sell individual components and begin 3rd party support.

Perhaps. I have never understood this monolithic frame of mind within Apple. Despite their emphasis on "freedom for computer users", they have by far the least free platform I have ever seen.

Alas, they have not done so, hopefully they will change their ways at some point.

I honestly doubt that. They show no signs of that. They seem intent on maintaining the elitist image.

 

[Theodore Kurita]

So, the Mac has an inferior architecture. I agree.

No, I didn't say that. Macintosh architecture is superior because it preforms better. The only advantage the PC has is that it can allow incompetant Programmers to keep their jobs.

And the only reason is a low market share.

Obviously, and what would happen to that market if Mac's became cheaper and started accepting 3rd party companies making Mac motherboards.

That is a far too simplistic view. You cannot ignore that Microsoft is also a very clever and agressive company, extremely set on succeeding.

Obviously. There is no doubt that Microsofty wants to succeed at all costs.

Very true. Having a Mac is equivalent to owning a car which you can only buy a certain kind of gas for.

Yeah, it is really kind of like that. The only thing in Apple's that are third party products are the RAM and the Video Cards. Everything else is 1st party. Now that I am thinking about it, this in some strange way is kind of reminding me of the console wars, and Nintendo only recently starting to use 2nd and 3rd pary software support.

Perhaps. I have never understood this monolithic frame of mind within Apple. Despite their emphasis on "freedom for computer users", they have by far the least free platform I have ever seen.

True. But the reason they use that slogan is that it uses one of the most user friendly interfaces avaliable. Also, if you are a real geek, and start messin around with the Unix Command Prompt, you can do wondergful things with your Macintosh.

I honestly doubt that. They show no signs of that. They seem intent on maintaining the elitist image.

I know, it might take a new CEO, or even an outright overhaul of the company before what I saide earlier can occurr. Still, Apple will have to change at some point if they want a chunk of the market back.



Also, I have been doing some digging around, it looks like Apple right now has a Game Console that is ready to be produced. However, they said they won't enter until one of the big four companies drops their console, which isn't likely to happen.

 

[Darat]

...snip...

Obviously, and what would happen to that market if Mac's became cheaper and started accepting 3rd party companies making Mac motherboards.

But Apple did go down the clone route for awhile and it wasn't very successful. (See: http://www.lowendmac.com/clones/index.shtml)

Obviously. There is no doubt that Microsofty wants to succeed at all costs.

And doesn't Apple?

Yeah, it is really kind of like that. The only thing in Apple's that are third party products are the RAM and the Video Cards. Everything else is 1st party. Now that I am thinking about it, this in some strange way is kind of reminding me of the console wars, and Nintendo only recently starting to use 2nd and 3rd pary software support.

Nintendo has always allowed (from the NES days onwards) third-party software. Apple on the other hand has become more and more "closed" over the years. It means they can squeeze more out of a given platform because they can fine tune it but it does limit consumer choice and even availability. Plus the PC platform isn’t just MS and Windows whilst the Mac platform is just Mac.

True. But the reason they use that slogan is that it uses one of the most user friendly interfaces avaliable. Also, if you are a real geek, and start messin around with the Unix Command Prompt, you can do wondergful things with your Macintosh.

In my opinion only recently has the Mac acquired "one of the most user-friendly interface". Before then it was really a matter of good marketing and an established, "mainstream view" that it had the “most user friendly UI”. From my experience of training people on both Windows and Mac versions of Photoshop and PageMaker many, many, many years ago I found that people could become much more productive on the Window versions then on the Mac versions. (A lot was to do with the fact that on the Windows versions everything could be done with the mouse and clicking, on the Mac they had to learn almost from the start to use the keyboard shortcuts, along with the mouse.) What the Mac had from the start was a simple in appearance UI that made it look less intimidating then early Windows and certainly a better interface then the intimidating DOS prompt.

Also early on the Mac was very, very limited in what it could do (which isn’t a criticism but part of its original strength) and therefore didn’t seem as difficult to use. For instance in the training above for printers on the Mac there was really only two Apple printers I had to train people to use, whereas on the Windows versions there was already a myriad of different printers, each with their own features and strengths and subsequently the Windows UI had in certain areas apparently more complexity when in fact it was giving users more choices and more capabilities then the closed shop Mac. (Remember all this is totally my personal opinion.)

I know, it might take a new CEO, or even an outright overhaul of the company before what I saide earlier can occurr. Still, Apple will have to change at some point if they want a chunk of the market back.

I agree, but I would be surprised to see this happening given MS’s commanding lead, it would require something truly revolutionary not just more of the best looking stuff!

Also, I have been doing some digging around, it looks like Apple right now has a Game Console that is ready to be produced. However, they said they won't enter until one of the big four companies drops their console, which isn't likely to happen.

Which Big 4? There are only three aren’t there? Sony, Nintendo and MS. Plus how can they "wait", their technology will be outstripped by the next gen stuff. (And unless you hear they have the full support of EA forget it as being a truly commercial viable product.)

(Edited for stuff.)

 

[Ian Osborne]

Nintendo has always allowed (from the NES days onwards) third-party software. Apple on the other hand has become more and more "closed" over the years.

Only under strict licensing conditions - in the NES days, they tried to sue companies for producing unlicensed product, most notably CodeMasters over the Game Genie cheat device. In the days of the SNES they sent legal threats to magazine publishers, attempting to prevent unofficial Nintendo magazines. Only recently, through lost lawsuits and falling market share, has Nintendo relaxed its corporate control over its consoles.

In contrast, anyone can produce and market a piece of Mac software...

 

[CFLarsen]

No, I didn't say that. Macintosh architecture is superior because it preforms better. The only advantage the PC has is that it can allow incompetant Programmers to keep their jobs.

By that, you are saying that programs for the PC platform are of poorer quality than on a Mac. That leads back to the question of why the Mac has such a minuscule market segment.

Obviously, and what would happen to that market if Mac's became cheaper and started accepting 3rd party companies making Mac motherboards.

Quite possibly. So, why doesn't Apple do that, if they are serious about gaining market shares?

Obviously. There is no doubt that Microsofty wants to succeed at all costs.

Which has proven effective. Apple's strategy clearly hasn't paid off.

Yeah, it is really kind of like that. The only thing in Apple's that are third party products are the RAM and the Video Cards. Everything else is 1st party. Now that I am thinking about it, this in some strange way is kind of reminding me of the console wars, and Nintendo only recently starting to use 2nd and 3rd pary software support.

Try the video war. Betamax was clearly a better format, yet VHS won.

True. But the reason they use that slogan is that it uses one of the most user friendly interfaces avaliable. Also, if you are a real geek, and start messin around with the Unix Command Prompt, you can do wondergful things with your Macintosh.

I design user interfaces for a living myself. I've looked at Apple's user interfaces, and the reason why users find it easy is because everything is done the same way. It's by far not the most intuitive way of doing it, but it is consistent. You can't get that on a PC platform - on the other hand, the UI on a PC has improved tremendously in the past 5 years, and it is because of the massive user feedback. You get a heck of a lot more feedback from the PC users than the Mac users.

I know, it might take a new CEO, or even an outright overhaul of the company before what I saide earlier can occurr. Still, Apple will have to change at some point if they want a chunk of the market back.

Oh, yes. What they are doing now isn't working.

Also, I have been doing some digging around, it looks like Apple right now has a Game Console that is ready to be produced. However, they said they won't enter until one of the big four companies drops their console, which isn't likely to happen.

There is no sign of that, no. PS2 still sells like crazy, and that is by now an "old" console. Why? Because there's a looooot of games for it.

 

[CFLarsen]

And doesn't Apple?

That is a very good question. Why the heck doesn't Apple simply change course? Is it because of one man's (flawed) vision?

 

[Rob Lister]

That is a very good question. Why the heck doesn't Apple simply change course? Is it because of one man's (flawed) vision?

Why should they change their course? They've got a very sucessful product, a stable market niche (practically a monopoly), an excellent image (loved by Rush Limbaugh and Ralph Nader alike), a double fistful of loyal customers willing to pay a premium for a slightly inferior (IMO*) product.

And comparing them to microsoft isn't really fair. Microsoft doesn't sell computers.

 

[CFLarsen]

Why should they change their course? They've got a very sucessful product, a stable market niche (practically a monopoly), an excellent image (loved by Rush Limbaugh and Ralph Nader alike), a double fistful of loyal customers willing to pay a premium for a slightly inferior (IMO*) product.

You may be right. That does make their own claims sound a bit shallow, though...

And comparing them to microsoft isn't really fair. Microsoft doesn't sell computers.

Correct.

 

[Theodore Kurita]

By that, you are saying that programs for the PC platform are of poorer quality than on a Mac. That leads back to the question of why the Mac has such a minuscule market segment.

It is because they are harder to program for. The best analogy I can come up for this is the Playstation 2. It is a bi*** to program for, yet it has the most, and it has the highest quality software avaliable. Also it's hardware is superior to the XBox and the Gamecube.

The reason why Mac has such a miniscule market segment, as in not as many programs avaliable, is that programmers in general don't like the fact that they have to spend more time debugging their programs before releasing it on the Mac. Fewer updates are needed for Mac software for that very reason, while more updates more frequently are needed for PC Software. Take a look at the amount of bug reports there are for Mac Programs.

Quite possibly. So, why doesn't Apple do that, if they are serious about gaining market shares?

Right now, I am thinking that the CEO of Apple is just wanting to stick with the nitch market. I think the $499.00 IMac is going to be an experiment into the market to see how it reacts.

Which has proven effective. Apple's strategy clearly hasn't paid off.

If you mean gaining most of the market, then yes, it hasn't paid off.

Try the video war. Betamax was clearly a better format, yet VHS won.

I've known about the video wars for some time. Now it looks like the audio wars will be coming up soon. Super Audio CD Vs. DVD-Audio

I design user interfaces for a living myself. I've looked at Apple's user interfaces, and the reason why users find it easy is because everything is done the same way. It's by far not the most intuitive way of doing it, but it is consistent. You can't get that on a PC platform - on the other hand, the UI on a PC has improved tremendously in the past 5 years, and it is because of the massive user feedback. You get a heck of a lot more feedback from the PC users than the Mac users.

I will give you that. In fact, there are mods and software avaliable that can make a windows or linux machine look and feel like a mac.

Oh, yes. What they are doing now isn't working.

Well, it works if they are still wanting to stick with their little nitch market of 3 - 5%, which would include me.

There is no sign of that, no. PS2 still sells like crazy, and that is by now an "old" console. Why? Because there's a looooot of games for it.

Obviously, Hardware that has alot of software avaliable is generally going to market better in the long run.