Among their near endless lists of professionals who supposedly back their views Patriots Question 9/11 has posted a list of “41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans [who] Challenge the Official Account of 9/11”. They seem to think this number is quite impressive.
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/Counterterrorism_Veterans.pdf
But based on polls 5 – 10% of the American public believe 9/11 was an “inside job” and an additional 10 – 20% believe high ranking US officials new the attacks were coming but intentionally let them happen. Thus it is not surprising that out of any reasonably large group of people some will subscribe to such theories. The question is are people whose expertise makes them better able to judge such matters more or less likely than the general public to believe them.
Truthers like to point to the pilots, firefighters, architects, engineers, scientists, military officers and now intelligence ops in their ranks. But when you crunch the numbers it turns out that the number of truthers from the latter group as with the others only represents a minuscule fraction of these professionals.
To begin with it seems that a dozen or more of the people on the don’t subscribe to the LIHOP (Let It Happen On Purpose) let alone the MIHOP (Made It Happen On Purpose) theory
1] Angelo Codevilla, PhD – only said that he thinks OBL has been dead since about 2002. There is no indication he supports the LIHOP or MIHOP theories.
2] Maj. John M. Newman – His congressional testimony regarding AQ official Saeed Sheikh is quoted. There is no indication he supports the LIHOP or MIHOP theories.
3] Melvin Goodman, PhD – His July 2005 testimony before the McKinney Commission was very selectively quoted in one of the omitted parts he said:
4] Robert Baer – A few of his comments are cited one is “Did bin Laden act alone, through his own al-Qaida network, in launching the attacks? About that I'm far more certain and emphatic: no” but his next sentence was omitted “Even before I left the CIA in late 1997, we had learned that Bin Laden had suggested to the Iranians that they drop their efforts to undermine central Asian governments and instead join him in a campaign against the United States.” In other words he thinks Iran not Bush and the CIA was in on it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/jan/12/extract1
He endorsed a Griffin book but told Time:
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...1692518,00.html
5, 6]Coleen Rowley and Robert G. Wright, Jr. [FBI] Both severely criticized the FBI “incompetence” in failing to prevent 9/11 neither indicated they back the MIHOP or LIHOP theories
7] Senator Mike Gravel sign a truther petition but has gone on record saying "I do not believe 9/11 was a governmental conspiracy. But I know that our government was partly at fault by engaging in polices that inspired it, failing to take aggressive steps to stop it, and sacrificing the liberty and safety of our citizens after it."
8] John Loftus – From the essay:
True but Meacher never disclosed his source and the quote doesn’t appear anywhere else (except people citing it) and Loftus made no other comments supportive of the truthers POV. Without the context there is no reason to believe he backs the LIHOP theory.
9,10] Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer and Capt. Scott J. Phillpott,, – The famous Able danger witnesses, evidence indicates they confused another terrorist with a similar name their group was monitoring with Mohamed Atta. Nothing they said indicates they back the MIHOP or LIHOP theories
11, 12] Maj. Scott Ritter and William G. Weaver, JD, PhD – made comments criticizing the 9/11 Commission but nothing they said indicates they back MIHOP or LIHOP theories
13?] Bogdan Dzakovic seem to at best toy with the idea on LIHOP. In spring 2006 he told a SF Chronicle columnist:
"Since 9/11, I learned to have less contempt for the terrorists than I do for the bureaucrats and politicians who could have prevented 9/11 but didn't.They served in very pivotal positions of influence but due to gross incompetence or the fear of actually fulfilling their oaths of office to defend this country or possibly even something a bit more sinister, they failed to take any action.”
http://www.theaviationnation.com/bogdan-dzakovic-articles/
14?, 15?] Edward Peck, Morton Goulder are only included because they signed a 2004 petition which suggests they support the LIHOP theory but Goodman and Dzakovic signed it too. This was the same list Van Jones got in trouble over and he told ABC News ‘he did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name’ and that “I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever." Three other signatories Dr. Rachel Ehrenfeld, Rabbi Michael Lerner and historian Howard Zinn said either they had not signed the petition or signed one different from the one posted. I was not able to find any relevant comments by Peck and Goulder.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp...t-of-911-truther-movement-apologizes-for.html
http://public-integrity.org/team.php
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0909/Trutherismlite_and_a_second_Jones_tie.html
So 12 – 15 out of the 41 it seems don’t back LIHOP or MIHOP so they are down to 26 – 29. And how many people in the US work or worked intelligence? Exact numbers are impossible and even reasonable estimates aren’t easy but some quick Internet research indicates US intelligence agencies employ about 338,000 people (see below). The number of ex-employees is probably more than double because many of the people cited only briefly worked intelligence assignments while serving in the military or working for the State Department so lets low ball it and presume there are 670,000 Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency veterans in the U.S. If they believed in an “inside job” to same extent as other Americans 5 – 10% of them would believe in MIHOP but only about 1/2000 that number (0.004%) have indicated they support MIHOP or LIHOP. Note that’s only counting the guesstimated number of former employees of these agencies. One could dispute my numbers but even there are only 100,000 intel vets in the US the truthers only have the public support of less than 0.03% of them.
Two of the remaining 41 are obvious crackpots. Major General Albert Stubblebine was forced to retire after he tried walking through walls and killing goats by staring at them.
http://www.amazon.com/Men-Who-Stare-Goats/dp/0743241924
Capt. Eric H. May is a looney Holocaust denier and anti-Semite. He wrote:
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/...re-smiling.html
Agency – Estimated # Employees
[Unless otherwise noted data from Wikipedia, over 10,000 rounded to nearest 1000]
CIA 20,000
ISR (USAF) 15,000
MIC (Army) 32,000
DIA 16,500
MCIA (USMC) ??
NGA (DoD) 9000
NRO 3000 [1]
NSA 120,000 [2]
ONI ??
USCG IE ??
FBI 31,000
DEA 11,000
INR (State) 300 [3]
OIA (Tres)??
I&A (DHS)??
TFI (Tres) ??
IN (DoE) ??
DNI 1500
SSB ??
NCS 1500
NCPC ??
NCTC ??
PIAB ??
FAA Security Division ??
Immigrations and Customs 15,000[4]
TSA 50,000 [5]
Secret Service 6500 [6]
Agencies 27+
Agencies with estimated # of employees 15 , total employees 332,300
Total employees if we calculate an average of 500 employees each for the remaining 12 agencies 338,300
Additional Sources
1] http://www.allgov.com/agency/National_Reconnaissance_Office
2] http://www.answers.com/topic/nsa-united-st...security-agency
3] http://web.archive.org/web/20030202082124/...ers_state.shtml
4] http://www.allgov.com/agency/U_S__Immigrat...Enforcement_ICE
5] http://www.allgov.com/agency/Transportatio..._Administration
6] http://www.allgov.com/agency/United_States..._Service__USSS_
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/Counterterrorism_Veterans.pdf
But based on polls 5 – 10% of the American public believe 9/11 was an “inside job” and an additional 10 – 20% believe high ranking US officials new the attacks were coming but intentionally let them happen. Thus it is not surprising that out of any reasonably large group of people some will subscribe to such theories. The question is are people whose expertise makes them better able to judge such matters more or less likely than the general public to believe them.
Truthers like to point to the pilots, firefighters, architects, engineers, scientists, military officers and now intelligence ops in their ranks. But when you crunch the numbers it turns out that the number of truthers from the latter group as with the others only represents a minuscule fraction of these professionals.
To begin with it seems that a dozen or more of the people on the don’t subscribe to the LIHOP (Let It Happen On Purpose) let alone the MIHOP (Made It Happen On Purpose) theory
1] Angelo Codevilla, PhD – only said that he thinks OBL has been dead since about 2002. There is no indication he supports the LIHOP or MIHOP theories.
2] Maj. John M. Newman – His congressional testimony regarding AQ official Saeed Sheikh is quoted. There is no indication he supports the LIHOP or MIHOP theories.
3] Melvin Goodman, PhD – His July 2005 testimony before the McKinney Commission was very selectively quoted in one of the omitted parts he said:
the 9/11 tragedy, this terrible tragedy, was not due to oversight problems. It wasn't due to budgetary problems It wasn't due to systemic or structural organizational problems. It wasn't due to organizational flaws.
This is what the 9/11 Commission studied and this is what they would have you believe. The 9/11 tragedy was due to personal failings, institutions didn't make mistakes. People made mistakes.
The 9/11 Commission needed to observe the importance of accountability, and they didn't do this. Finally, and this is my real regret, the 9/11 tragedy was about bureaucratic cowardice at places such as the Pentagon and the. Department of Defense, and this needed to be examined as well. I hope eventually we can get into those areas.
http://www.911truth.org/downloads/McKinney-911Commission-OneYearLater.pdfThis is what the 9/11 Commission studied and this is what they would have you believe. The 9/11 tragedy was due to personal failings, institutions didn't make mistakes. People made mistakes.
The 9/11 Commission needed to observe the importance of accountability, and they didn't do this. Finally, and this is my real regret, the 9/11 tragedy was about bureaucratic cowardice at places such as the Pentagon and the. Department of Defense, and this needed to be examined as well. I hope eventually we can get into those areas.
4] Robert Baer – A few of his comments are cited one is “Did bin Laden act alone, through his own al-Qaida network, in launching the attacks? About that I'm far more certain and emphatic: no” but his next sentence was omitted “Even before I left the CIA in late 1997, we had learned that Bin Laden had suggested to the Iranians that they drop their efforts to undermine central Asian governments and instead join him in a campaign against the United States.” In other words he thinks Iran not Bush and the CIA was in on it.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2002/jan/12/extract1
He endorsed a Griffin book but told Time:
I myself have felt the pull of the conspiracy theorists — who believe that 9/11 was an inside job, somehow pulled off by the U.S. government. For the record, I don't believe that the World Trade Center was brought down by our own explosives, or that a rocket, rather than an airliner, hit the Pentagon. I spent a career in the CIA trying to orchestrate plots, wasn't all that good at it, and certainly couldn't carry off 9/11. Nor could the real pros I had the pleasure to work with.
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,...1692518,00.html
5, 6]Coleen Rowley and Robert G. Wright, Jr. [FBI] Both severely criticized the FBI “incompetence” in failing to prevent 9/11 neither indicated they back the MIHOP or LIHOP theories
7] Senator Mike Gravel sign a truther petition but has gone on record saying "I do not believe 9/11 was a governmental conspiracy. But I know that our government was partly at fault by engaging in polices that inspired it, failing to take aggressive steps to stop it, and sacrificing the liberty and safety of our citizens after it."
8] John Loftus – From the essay:
In a September 2003 commentary in The Guardian by Michael
Meacher, Member of the UK Parliament and former Minister of the
Environment, titled This War on Terrorism is Bogus, Mr. Loftus
was quoted, “The information provided by European intelligence
services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer
possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defence of
incompetence.” 40
Meacher, Member of the UK Parliament and former Minister of the
Environment, titled This War on Terrorism is Bogus, Mr. Loftus
was quoted, “The information provided by European intelligence
services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer
possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defence of
incompetence.” 40
True but Meacher never disclosed his source and the quote doesn’t appear anywhere else (except people citing it) and Loftus made no other comments supportive of the truthers POV. Without the context there is no reason to believe he backs the LIHOP theory.
9,10] Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer and Capt. Scott J. Phillpott,, – The famous Able danger witnesses, evidence indicates they confused another terrorist with a similar name their group was monitoring with Mohamed Atta. Nothing they said indicates they back the MIHOP or LIHOP theories
11, 12] Maj. Scott Ritter and William G. Weaver, JD, PhD – made comments criticizing the 9/11 Commission but nothing they said indicates they back MIHOP or LIHOP theories
13?] Bogdan Dzakovic seem to at best toy with the idea on LIHOP. In spring 2006 he told a SF Chronicle columnist:
"Since 9/11, I learned to have less contempt for the terrorists than I do for the bureaucrats and politicians who could have prevented 9/11 but didn't.They served in very pivotal positions of influence but due to gross incompetence or the fear of actually fulfilling their oaths of office to defend this country or possibly even something a bit more sinister, they failed to take any action.”
http://www.theaviationnation.com/bogdan-dzakovic-articles/
14?, 15?] Edward Peck, Morton Goulder are only included because they signed a 2004 petition which suggests they support the LIHOP theory but Goodman and Dzakovic signed it too. This was the same list Van Jones got in trouble over and he told ABC News ‘he did not carefully review the language in the petition before agreeing to add his name’ and that “I do not agree with this statement and it certainly does not reflect my views now or ever." Three other signatories Dr. Rachel Ehrenfeld, Rabbi Michael Lerner and historian Howard Zinn said either they had not signed the petition or signed one different from the one posted. I was not able to find any relevant comments by Peck and Goulder.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalp...t-of-911-truther-movement-apologizes-for.html
http://public-integrity.org/team.php
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0909/Trutherismlite_and_a_second_Jones_tie.html
So 12 – 15 out of the 41 it seems don’t back LIHOP or MIHOP so they are down to 26 – 29. And how many people in the US work or worked intelligence? Exact numbers are impossible and even reasonable estimates aren’t easy but some quick Internet research indicates US intelligence agencies employ about 338,000 people (see below). The number of ex-employees is probably more than double because many of the people cited only briefly worked intelligence assignments while serving in the military or working for the State Department so lets low ball it and presume there are 670,000 Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency veterans in the U.S. If they believed in an “inside job” to same extent as other Americans 5 – 10% of them would believe in MIHOP but only about 1/2000 that number (0.004%) have indicated they support MIHOP or LIHOP. Note that’s only counting the guesstimated number of former employees of these agencies. One could dispute my numbers but even there are only 100,000 intel vets in the US the truthers only have the public support of less than 0.03% of them.
Two of the remaining 41 are obvious crackpots. Major General Albert Stubblebine was forced to retire after he tried walking through walls and killing goats by staring at them.
http://www.amazon.com/Men-Who-Stare-Goats/dp/0743241924
Capt. Eric H. May is a looney Holocaust denier and anti-Semite. He wrote:
"A Beautiful Mind" was filmed before 911, in early 2001, but it was released after 911 - did the Hollywood Jews who made the movie know about 911 in advance, then brainwash us out of figuring it out? Come to think of it, was the whole attack a number game, in which the feds had spent years preparing us to call Big Brother in a national "911 call" in response to a "911 attack?” Is Hollywood part of a psychological operation?
The film was released on a very special date (and we've already seen how well dates can code): December 21st 2001. OK, try the number-code tricks I taught you above (see link, ed) and find the numeric sequence 12/21/21! The "Jewish" number 12, then 12 reversed - twice! It's all 12 permutations! Well, it's plenty tricky, but this has been a tricky infowar - at least to those of us (like Ghost Troop) with beautiful minds!
The date, incidentally, is the Winter Solstice, which means the shortest and darkest day of the year. Sound like a good day to bring out a movie that would keep everybody in the dark? Yep, sounds like it to me, too! Another trivia point, did you know that at the Academy Awards (controlled by Jewish Hollywood), "A Beautiful Mind" received the best picture award? Do you think that the Media Jews did that to make you accept the message of the movie - don't analyze media - all the more readily? I do.
http://www.911truth.ie/plus-emails/plus86.html The film was released on a very special date (and we've already seen how well dates can code): December 21st 2001. OK, try the number-code tricks I taught you above (see link, ed) and find the numeric sequence 12/21/21! The "Jewish" number 12, then 12 reversed - twice! It's all 12 permutations! Well, it's plenty tricky, but this has been a tricky infowar - at least to those of us (like Ghost Troop) with beautiful minds!
The date, incidentally, is the Winter Solstice, which means the shortest and darkest day of the year. Sound like a good day to bring out a movie that would keep everybody in the dark? Yep, sounds like it to me, too! Another trivia point, did you know that at the Academy Awards (controlled by Jewish Hollywood), "A Beautiful Mind" received the best picture award? Do you think that the Media Jews did that to make you accept the message of the movie - don't analyze media - all the more readily? I do.
"Since Nov. 1, wildfires have consumed more than 380,000 acres, destroyed 220 homes and businesses and killed two people."
This decodes to 111, then 11, then 22, then 2. Connect 22 with 2 and get 222; then reduce the 222 to 111. Now connect the date 111 with the acres 11 with the (modified) destroyed homes/people 111 to get 11111111.
This decodes to 111, then 11, then 22, then 2. Connect 22 with 2 and get 222; then reduce the 222 to 111. Now connect the date 111 with the acres 11 with the (modified) destroyed homes/people 111 to get 11111111.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2007/...re-smiling.html
Agency – Estimated # Employees
[Unless otherwise noted data from Wikipedia, over 10,000 rounded to nearest 1000]
CIA 20,000
ISR (USAF) 15,000
MIC (Army) 32,000
DIA 16,500
MCIA (USMC) ??
NGA (DoD) 9000
NRO 3000 [1]
NSA 120,000 [2]
ONI ??
USCG IE ??
FBI 31,000
DEA 11,000
INR (State) 300 [3]
OIA (Tres)??
I&A (DHS)??
TFI (Tres) ??
IN (DoE) ??
DNI 1500
SSB ??
NCS 1500
NCPC ??
NCTC ??
PIAB ??
FAA Security Division ??
Immigrations and Customs 15,000[4]
TSA 50,000 [5]
Secret Service 6500 [6]
Agencies 27+
Agencies with estimated # of employees 15 , total employees 332,300
Total employees if we calculate an average of 500 employees each for the remaining 12 agencies 338,300
Additional Sources
1] http://www.allgov.com/agency/National_Reconnaissance_Office
2] http://www.answers.com/topic/nsa-united-st...security-agency
3] http://web.archive.org/web/20030202082124/...ers_state.shtml
4] http://www.allgov.com/agency/U_S__Immigrat...Enforcement_ICE
5] http://www.allgov.com/agency/Transportatio..._Administration
6] http://www.allgov.com/agency/United_States..._Service__USSS_
Last edited: