30 Pedophiles Arrested in Virginia

[mike81]

Wait, are you talking about a police sting (i.e. a Police officer masquarading as a 13 year old) or an actual case of a 13 yo child doing this that was later reported to police.

If the former, I want to see the evidence.

If the latter (the 13 yo girl admitting saying she was 18) then don't bother, I remember the case -it was in Australia, and girl lied and admitted she lied and the case was dropped.

The latter scenario has nothing to do with what he are talking about here.

I'm saying the damn police sting. Let me start over. Here is how it goes:

Undercover Adult Female: Hey mister. I'm 18 want to meet?

Male: Sure.

This leads to sex talk and planning on screwing around.

Day comes when they are supposed to meet.

Undercover Adult Female: Hey I'm really 13.

Male: Yeah right.

Guy gets there and gets arrested.

Lawyer: As you can see, she originally said she was 18.

Case dismissed.


Now, I hope it is ok that I didn't go into great detail and all you with such big brains can fill in the gaps.

 

[smartcooky]

Admittedly that does seem to change things a little bit... I would have assumed that that percentage was substantially lower. (I just can't picture a younger girl actually having an interest in someone substantially older.)
A couple of issues that I have:
- I do not know how reputable the site you referenced is. (It for a company that sells child protection services, so they might have a vested interest in skewing the figures. And the link they provided for the '8%' figure is broken.)
- They mention 8% actually meeting strangers, but they don't specify whether they were meeting someone older or a teenager near their own age.

I am not totally dismissive of your reference, but I do think it provides some evidence in support.

There does seem to be a bit of inconsistency here... 8% actually met strangers, but 4% 'included attempts to contact offline'. (And sadly the 4% statistic they referred to doesn't have an active source either.)

I know... different sources are probably using different definitions, different age ranges, etc.

The statistic I would like to see (and the one that sadly I have never seen), is: How many on-line pedophiles actually have success in actually meeting a victim through the internet.

I guess you realise the predators often also lie about their age, and either post a younger picture of themselves, or of another person entirely?

As to the stats, they can be a bit skewed too because (especially in USA) you sometimes can't tell if the stats are national or state based. FBI stats are usually, but not always, national. They are still disturbing regardless.

Actually I find the whole thing disturbing - and I am very thankful that my two girls and their friends all grew up to adulthood before the days of chatrooms and social media.

 

[Checkmite]

From what I've read, this is a major problem with people not in law enforcement setting up vigilante "stings". They imagine they're doing good work but the results are useless legally.

This is the only scenario I can think of that mike81 might be referring to. He says he remembers seeing a report "around ten years ago", and I know that in the early 00's there was a trend of vigilante groups staging these kinds of "stings", often for TV ratings, and I can easily imagine such groups using less-than-scrupulous tactics.

Actual police-stings though, no. Or rather, I really need to see some actual examples of this happening. It's not that I believe police "never behave badly", it's just that inventing internet pedophiles to arrest for PR would frankly be doing it the hard way.

 

[mike81]

This is the only scenario I can think of that mike81 might be referring to. He says he remembers seeing a report "around ten years ago", and I know that in the early 00's there was a trend of vigilante groups staging these kinds of "stings", often for TV ratings, and I can easily imagine such groups using less-than-scrupulous tactics.

Actual police-stings though, no. Or rather, I really need to see some actual examples of this happening. It's not that I believe police "never behave badly", it's just that inventing internet pedophiles to arrest for PR would frankly be doing it the hard way.

You MIGHT be right. I COULD be wrong, but so could someone else.

 

[Checkmite]

As an analogy, they are like bigfoot hunters... in search of something that rare (at best) and possibly/likely non-existent. And the police sting operation is like they set out a trap to arrest the bigfoot hunters. Yeah, the hunters wanted to shoot a bigfoot but they were unlikely to ever actually do so due to the absence of their target.

I see what you're saying; but that's where we get into the second paragraph of my post. For one thing, physical visits aside I think you are vastly underestimating the success of pedophiles finding "real" children to make contact with online; for another, I believe you are overweighing the importance of whether these interactions would ever lead to a physical visit.

For instance, it's not like the pedophiles caught by these stings have completely innocuous conversations with the target "children" and hide their sexual agenda when they press for a visit. I feel safe saying that most of the time, by the time these guys show up to the bait house, they have already had explicit sexual conversations and very often have sent explicit photos to the "underage" officer.

Online predators' contacts with real children go exactly the same way, and those interactions can certainly cause harm to their victims even if the pedophile never attempts to arrange a visit. And indeed there are plenty who never suggest personal visits at all, fully content to exploit the children at router's-length. To include not only sending the explicit pictures of themselves to the kids, but obtaining similar material from the children.

 

[Elagabalus]

I guess you realise the predators often also lie about their age, and either post a younger picture of themselves, or of another person entirely?

As to the stats, they can be a bit skewed too because (especially in USA) you sometimes can't tell if the stats are national or state based. FBI stats are usually, but not always, national. They are still disturbing regardless.

Actually I find the whole thing disturbing - and I am very thankful that my two girls and their friends all grew up to adulthood before the days of chatrooms and social media.

On that note. What do these guys think is going to happen when they finally meet and their picture doesn't match their real appearance and the intended victim has their iPhone ready to upload pictures of their meeting (in real time)? Maybe get a few shots with his car and the license plates in the background.

 

[trustbutverify]

Until 2016 it was legal to marry (and therefore have sex) a thirteen year old in Virginia. It remains legal to do so in several US states. Perhaps this should be addressed also.

Which states has a legal age of consent at 13?

 

[mike81]

Which states has a legal age of consent at 13?

None that I know of. In many states, it is legal to marry an under-age person and that makes it legal to have sex with them. Even if they are under the age of consent. The law will say something like:

is guilty of statutory rape if they have sex with a person under age 16 who is not their spouse.

 

[jadebox]

I thought what mike81 said sounded familiar. So, I did a Google search and found the following.

Federal jury finds man caught in Columbus child sex sting not guilty

The prosecution contended Kim drove from Auburn to Atlanta for the purposes of having sex with a 14-year-old girl he had met online. Kim’s defense was he did not know the girl was 14 and that she led him to believe by an online photo and a phone conversation that she was much older​

.

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/local/crime/article202687419.html

 

[mike81]

I thought what mike81 said sounded familiar. So, I did a Google search and found the following.

Federal jury finds man caught in Columbus child sex sting not guilty

The prosecution contended Kim drove from Auburn to Atlanta for the purposes of having sex with a 14-year-old girl he had met online. Kim’s defense was he did not know the girl was 14 and that she led him to believe by an online photo and a phone conversation that she was much older​

.

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/local/crime/article202687419.html

That is pretty much the type of thing I'm talking about. There are times where these men are not looking for children and they are led to believe that the undercover agent is of age at first. They entrap men. Plain and simple. Now I'm not saying this is always the case, but it clearly does happen.

Be sure to listen to the 2nd recording and not just the first. Yes, he made a bad choice. Should have cut off contact when she claimed to be 14, but he clearly was not looking for a child.

 

[smartcooky]

I thought what mike81 said sounded familiar. So, I did a Google search and found the following.

Federal jury finds man caught in Columbus child sex sting not guilty

The prosecution contended Kim drove from Auburn to Atlanta for the purposes of having sex with a 14-year-old girl he had met online. Kim’s defense was he did not know the girl was 14 and that she led him to believe by an online photo and a phone conversation that she was much older​

.

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/local/crime/article202687419.html

Yeah, I found that one too, but I dismissed it as irrelevant because mike81 specifically said the police lied about the bait-girl's age

What happened here is that he successfully argued no-one would believe the pictures the sting operator sent him were of a woman under 20, let along a 14 years old. Furthermore he was able do show that the site he used never had underage girls, and that he was very surprised about this one. Couple that with the fact that a search of his personal devices show no history of contacting under age girls, and it was pretty much a no brainer for the Jury.

 

[mike81]

Yeah, I found that one too, but I dismissed it as irrelevant because mike81 specifically said the police lied about the bait-girl's age

Well believe it or not that is exactly what happened in the reports that I'm talking about. At first the adult decoy says they are 18 and then says they are younger once the man is on the way. They then claim that he intended to meet a child based on the fact that she said she was younger while he was on the way there. Sorry if you and others think that me not having a link to an article on the internet somehow proves me wrong.

Come on now. Everything does not have to be treated like it is some paranormal claim. Can some of you really not accept that these police stings would do something like I mentioned? Is it really that extraordinary of a claim?

Not everyone can afford a high priced lawyer and get found not guilty. The police and DA's count on this to build up their conviction rates. They really don't give a damn how they go about it. Most people get scared into a plea bargain out of fear of being found guilty and spending many years in jail. There are people on the sex registry all because they took a leak while on a construction site and someone saw them. I will not rush to judgement on anyone.

 

[smartcooky]

Well believe it or not that is exactly what happened in the reports that I'm talking about. At first the adult decoy says they are 18 and then says they are younger once the man is on the way. They then claim that he intended to meet a child based on the fact that she said she was younger while he was on the way there. Sorry if you and others think that me not having a link to an article on the internet somehow proves me wrong.

I remain skeptical of your claim until I see evidence

Come on now. Everything does not have to be treated like it is some paranormal claim. Can some of you really not accept that these police stings would do something like I mentioned? Is it really that extraordinary of a claim?

Yes, it is an extraordinary claim. This is not like some crooked cop planting weed in a car, or planting a drop-gun at the scene of a shooting, or lying about the driver's speed at a traffic stop, where it is only the cop's word against that of the suspect.

These sting operations require meticulous record keeping of the entire sting from the getgo - there are records of everything that the police say, and that record is going to be presented as evidence. If the record shows they lied about the bait-girl's age - BOOM, game over.

They are also not the only ones who have these records; the suspect has them too, and so do the ISPs. To pull off what you say would be a colossal task - they would have to lie to the target and then remove all trace of the lie from all of the records. That is a lot of trouble to go to just to lure one guy when they have so many easier willing idiots on the hook.

Not everyone can afford a high priced lawyer..... < snipped>.

All irrelevant - nothing to do with paedophile sting operations.

 

[mike81]

These sting operations require meticulous record keeping of the entire sting from the getgo - there are records of everything that the police say, and that record is going to be presented as evidence. If the record shows they lied about the bait-girl's age - BOOM, game over.

They are also not the only ones who have these records; the suspect has them too, and so do the ISPs. To pull off what you say would be a colossal task - they would have to lie to the target and then remove all trace of the lie from all of the records. That is a lot of trouble to go to just to lure one guy when they have so many easier willing idiots on the hook.

And? Where did I ever claim that they change the record? So what if the record shows that they originally claimed they were of age? Sometimes a lawyer uses that and gets it thrown out and sometimes they get talked into a plea bargain or get found guilty. You see people get convicted all the time even if they didn't do it or the police used questionable tactics. Is this seriously news to some of you?

 

[smartcooky]

And? So what if the record shows that they originally claimed they were of age? Sometimes a lawyer uses that and gets it thrown out and sometimes they get talked into a plea bargain or get found guilty. You see people get convicted all the time even if they didn't do it or the police used questionable tactics. Is this seriously news to some of you?

Mike, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding!


THEY WOULD NEED TO CHANGE THE RECORD TO MAKE YOUR CLAIM WORK!

Chrissakes! What is it going to take for you to get this?

 

[mike81]

Mike, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding!


THEY WOULD NEED TO CHANGE THE RECORD TO MAKE YOuR CLAIM WORK!

NO THEY WOULD NOT! THEY DON'T CARE IF THE RECORD SHOWS THEY ORIGINALLY CLAIMED TO BE 18. ALL THAT USUALLY MATTERS IS THAT THEY THEN LATER SAID THEY WERE 13. THEY CAN ARGUE THAT SINCE THEY SAID 13 BEFORE THEY MET IN PERSON, THAT THE MAN KNEW SHE WAS 13. THEY CAN SAY HE CAME TO MEET A 13 YEAR OLD NO MATTER WHAT SHE SAID AT FIRST. IS THIS SO DAMN HARD TO UNDERSTAND? THEY SAY 18 AT FIRST TO LURE MORE MEN IN. ALL THEY REALLY CARE ABOUT IS BUILDING UP THEIR ARREST AND CONVICTION RATES.

By your argument if a child claims to be 18 and turns out to be 13 the guy can get away with it. Guess what? The law says it does not matter what she said at first and he is guilty.

 

[smartcooky]

NO THEY WOULD NOT! THEY DON'T CARE IF THE RECORD SHOWS THEY ORIGINALLY CLAIMED TO BE 18. ALL THAT USUALLY MATTERS IS THAT THEY THEN LATER SAID THEY WERE 13. THEY CAN ARGUE THAT SINCE THEY SAID 13 BEFORE THEY MET IN PERSON, THAT THE MAN KNEW SHE WAS 13. THEY CAN SAY HE CAME TO MEET A 13 YEAR OLD NO MATTER WHAT SHE SAID AT FIRST. IS THIS SO DAMN HARD TO UNDERSTAND?

By your argument if a child claims to be 18 and turns out to be 13 the guy can get away with it. Guess what? The law says it does not matter what she said at first and he is guilty.

I GIVE UP!

 

[mike81]

Mike, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding!


THEY WOULD NEED TO CHANGE THE RECORD TO MAKE YOUR CLAIM WORK!

Chrissakes! What is it going to take for you to get this?

[qimg]https://www.dropbox.com/s/cm26qtq1fiberrg/headbang.gif?raw=1[/qimg]

I GIVE UP!

ME TOO!! WHAT IS SO UNBELIEVABLE ABOUT WHAT I HAVE SAID?

 

[Matthew Best]

Yeah, I found that one too, but I dismissed it as irrelevant because mike81 specifically said the police lied about the bait-girl's age

They lied about the bait girl's age in this case, too! She wasn't 14, she said she was, that's a lie.

 

[Matthew Best]

Mike, I have found you an argument; but I am not obliged to find you an understanding!


THEY WOULD NEED TO CHANGE THE RECORD TO MAKE YOUR CLAIM WORK!

Chrissakes! What is it going to take for you to get this?

I guess it would help if it was actually correct.