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Merged 2024 Election Thread

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ChrisBFRPKY said:
That's an interesting assessment. It leads one to question who these folks from this highly radical and deeply Blue Democrat area support. So which side of the voting scale should one believe the "ANTIFA" folks are drawn to? I'll give you a hint. Biden once said ""Antifa is an idea not an organization." I think you know.
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I'm already pretty sure that you aren't truly interested in reality here, but meh. ANTIFA is a very loose collection of people that are united in their opposition of fascism. It's certainly true, though, that people who oppose fascism tend to be on the left, especially given how openly a growing number of elected politicians on the right seem to be embracing fascism, so you do have a point there.

Now, with that said, a heck of a lot of disinformation about ANTIFA has been spread as right wing propagandists have worked to turn them into a scapegoat and boogeyman. In particular, the Black Bloc, a largely anarchist subset of ANTIFA receives what should be a remarkable amount of attention. In general, they certainly can be problematic, but their crimes tend to be minor ones and they're not particularly welcomed by the rest of those on the left, especially when they refuse to respect property rights.

Now, you likely want to scream about antifa violence, but, well...

While violence can – and does – occur in conflicts between antifa actors and right-wing extremists, it is important to reject attempts to claim equivalence between antifa and the white supremacist and other right-wing extremist groups they oppose. Antifa adherents reject racism, and only a small, militant element use violent tactics to express this opposition. White supremacists and other right-wing extremists, on the other hand, use even more extreme violence to spread their ideologies of hate, to intimidate marginalized communities, and to undermine democratic norms. Right-wing extremists have been one of the largest and most consistent sources of domestic terror incidents in the United States for many years; they have murdered hundreds of people in this country over the last ten years alone. To date, there has been only one suspected antifa-related murder, which took place on August 29, 2020, in Portland, Oregon.
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In short, the danger posed by ANTIFA (and their connections and influence on the Democratic Party) is being dramatically overdramatized by people like you, ChrisBFRPKY, seemingly often as a distraction and diversion from the very real and actually serious threat of violence and dangers that's been coming from the right-wing.

Further, I think that it's worth poking at left and liberal not being one and the same. There have been a few factors, such as many right-wing propagandists demonizing liberals using flimsy cause for a long, long time, that have led to liberals being far more prominently represented on the left, which has led to there being some truth in the connection by circumstance, of course. You're also trying to toss in anarchism there, though, which is decidedly more problematic.


ChrisBFRPKY said:
Nope. It's about returning our country to economic prosperity and security while ensuring peace and prosperity for the rest of the World thru communication, Military strength and leadership, again. It's about relieving the pressure from low income families so they're able to afford food for their families and a home to live in without having to make hard choices or having off brand breakfast cereal for dinner. It's about hands off the children. Republicans don't care what kind of weird sex you're having, we just want you to stop telling children about it.
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You're just asking to be utterly ridiculed, right? Segnosaur already broke that down to some extent and I'm not going to do so too, because of that, even if there's plenty more to delve into. With that said, just about all of that may well be what you believe it to be about, certainly. It's just that that's pretty much completely opposite to what MAGA politicians actually push and do in practice, once you set the flimsy lies and propaganda aside. You may embrace the vranyo for whatever reasons you see fit, but that doesn't mean that we have to go along with such.
 
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There is no greater danger to a fascist takeover than resistance willing to fight back.
It must be denounced and criminalized at any cost.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Nope. It's about returning our country to economic prosperity and security while ensuring peace and prosperity for the rest of the World thru communication, Military strength and leadership, again. It's about relieving the pressure from low income families so they're able to afford food for their families and a home to live in without having to make hard choices or having off brand breakfast cereal for dinner. It's about hands off the children. Republicans don't care what kind of weird sex you're having, we just want you to stop telling children about it. What a shocker. I'll bet you thought it was about gas chambers and thousand year reichs.
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None of that is happening under Trump. He will cut taxes for billionaires and cut off your Obamacare. economy will be worse and your goods at Wlmart more expensive due to Trump tariffs.

How were you so easily fooled? The guy is an ACTOR! All he does is talk BS in a convincing way.
 
Andy_Ross said:
Trump

"Democrats said please don’t call undocumented immigrants animals. I said, no, they’re not humans, they’re animals."

Video in link

https://x.com/highbrow_nobrow/status/1814420478339305771?t=_R-9SlEHKDq4SEVo8OVJcA&s=09
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That's from a bit ago. To summarize the repeated following conversation in hopes of heading it off, right-wingers have tried to claim that the larger context is somehow exonerating, of course, by trying to pretend that the statement only refers to criminals, IIRC, and try to pull the usual gaslighting. The statement rather pointedly doesn't, though. It does start with a reference to a criminal, sure, but quickly devolves into an indiscriminate attack on immigrants, which includes the quoted, as well as indefensibly false fearmongering about immigrants.
 
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Andy_Ross said:
Trump

"Democrats said please don’t call undocumented immigrants animals. I said, no, they’re not humans, they’re animals."
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I like how you change what was said, but still put it in quotation marks. And then include a video that contradicts your quote.

You know what those little "" are for, right? And how to use them?
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
That's interesting but it's an opinion. (JD Vance's at the time) Everyone can have an opinion and it need not be based on reality. An opinion can be based on a false narrative....
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Sure. Based on false narratives and loose affiliation with reality, some people opine that Bigfoot is real. Their opinions do not oblige us to take their opinions seriously.

In particular, there is no reason to take JD Vance's current opinion of Trump more seriously than his earlier opinion. There is in fact less reason.
 
W.D.Clinger said:
Sure. Based on false narratives and loose affiliation with reality, some people opine that Bigfoot is real. Their opinions do not oblige us to take their opinions seriously.

In particular, there is no reason to take JD Vance's current opinion of Trump more seriously than his earlier opinion. There is in fact less reason.
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A bit like much of the Republican Party's stance on Trump. Before Trump became the Republican Party's candidate in the first place, lots and lots of Republicans made it plenty clear how horrible they rightly believed that Trump would be. Trump's lifetime of deeply problematic words, actions, and associations are all serious red flags, after all, and most Republicans aren't actually totally blind and stupid. Once he became the candidate, though, the Party closed ranks and have been working to gaslight everyone since then, with obvious motives to deceive. There's much less reason to believe Vance's current public statements about Trump are truthful, just like there's been much less reason to believe pretty much any prominent Republican's current public statements about Trump are actually truthful. More if they're officially retiring, of course, as some of the motives are no longer in play then.
 
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Vance strikes me as the kind of guy who’d personally kick the butt of anyone who insulted his wife.
 
sir drinks-a-lot said:
I like how you change what was said, but still put it in quotation marks. And then include a video that contradicts your quote.

You know what those little "" are for, right? And how to use them?
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I put in a link to the video, you looked for yourself.

There's a reason I didn't use quote tags. I changed a word to make more obvious what he was talking about other than '"they" which could have been referring to anything without the context.
 
Andy_Ross said:
I put in a link to the video, you looked for yourself.

There's a reason I didn't use quote tags. I changed a word to make more obvious what he was talking about other than '"they" which could have been referring to anything without the context.
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It's a quote mine. Reuters gives better context as to who "they" are:

While speaking of Laken Riley - a 22-year-old nursing student from Georgia allegedly murdered by a Venezuelan immigrant in the country illegally - Trump said some immigrants were sub-human.

"The Democrats say, 'Please don't call them animals. They're humans.' I said, 'No, they're not humans, they're not humans, they're animals,'" said Trump, president from 2017 to 2021.
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Andy_Ross said:
I put in a link to the video, you looked for yourself.

There's a reason I didn't use quote tags. I changed a word to make more obvious what he was talking about other than '"they" which could have been referring to anything without the context.
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I know.

You took quite liberty in choosing your very own interpretation of “they”.

You didn’t use quote tags, but you used quotation marks and used them to surround something that wasn’t a quote. Customarily, square brackets [] are used in cases like this to clarify the quote. But you don’t get to just make up whatever you want and put it on quotation marks. And if you use square brackets, you need to use them more honestly than you your fake quotation suggests.
 
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