Merged 2024 Election Thread

[ahhell]

I honestly don't get it, but then again I have been anti 2 party for my entire life--I always voted for the most viable 3d party candidate until Bush-Gore, which then and more so now it is clear that systemic change will have to wait, because defeating a potential dictator is far more important right now than griping about the dominant stupidity demonstrated by both major parties. And it is unequivocally true that the Dems support of Biden, who at least is sane and is capable of empathy, and has bipartisan legislation under his belt, is far less stupid than the GOP's inane support of a complete lunatic who will drag the entire country along with his supporters to the grave if it suits his fragile ego. So I won't waste my breath right now complaining about poor old Joe, there are far more important issues at hand!

Its funny, agree but, I'm not even really complaining that Biden is so old or appears so old, I'm complaining that some, most of his supporters seem to be in complete denial about it. It baffles me!

I could also complain about Trump being too old because he is, its just among the least of my complaints about trump. I'm also baffled by folks that support him but I don't think I have any chance of convincing them of anything. How do you convince someone that still supports Trump after he tried to steal the election of anything?

Please do vote for Biden if you live in a swing state. If you live in a solid blue or solid red state, vote for whoever you want, I recommend any third party but thats just me.

 

[johnny karate]

No, but they have to do with getting the candidate there.
A candidiate should have these qualities in addition to the other qualities which qualify him/her to be competent for being POTUS.

It's great that you're mention that last part... now.

And since Trump is other choice, pretty much everything smarter than a lamppost is going to be more competent than him. So it's not like we need an uber genius.

Trump is actually a small part of the problem. It's the constant tsunami of disinformation and propaganda from the right that's the problem. It's not Biden vs Trump, it's Biden vs that. And any candidate the Democrats pick is going to be subjected to it. It's fantasy to pretend otherwise.

Competent stewardship is unlikely to kick up the arses of those who probably don't bother going to vote (for their team).

Therein lies the problem. Too many people in this country with short attention spans who are far too easily impressed by obvious chicanery. Again, this is how we got Trump in the first place.

 

[johnny karate]

Its funny, agree but, I'm not even really complaining that Biden is so old or appears so old, I'm complaining that some, most of his supporters seem to be in complete denial about it. It baffles me!

I'm not seeing denial. I'm seeing pushback on bad faith arguments.

Again, we ended up on this "Biden is old" tangent again because someone posted a tweet from an anti-vax conspiracy theorist Trump supporter.

There are good faith arguments to be made about concern for Biden's viability as a candidate. I look forward to someone making one.

 

[Random]

Its funny, agree but, I'm not even really complaining that Biden is so old or appears so old, I'm complaining that some, most of his supporters seem to be in complete denial about it. It baffles me!

I haven't seen any Democrats say his age is not an issue. But we do get sick of "Concern Trolls" coming up with useless advice in editorial after editorial, post after post. "Biden is old! The Democratic party should instigate a massive bout of infighting amongst themselves as we head into one of the most consequential elections in history! Really, it's for the best!"

It really gets annoying when you consider that Trump is old too, but the guys who say Biden should step down never seem to say the same for Trump unless you push them on it.

You get Trump or Biden. Johnny Unbeatable is not coming. You get Trump or Biden. No third-party candidate has a chance. You get Trump or Biden. We may desperately want a different choice, but it's not going to happen. You get Trump or Biden.

 

[ahhell]

I'm not seeing denial. I'm seeing pushback on bad faith arguments.

Again, we ended up on this "Biden is old" tangent again because someone posted a tweet from an anti-vax conspiracy theorist Trump supporter.
There are good faith arguments to be made about concern for Biden's viability as a candidate. I look forward to someone making one.

How about his record disapproval ratings and that poll after poll has shown that the majority of Americans, including the Majority of Dems think he's too old?

That alone should have had the Dems looking for another candidate. Pretty much too late now but this was the case in 2023. It just weird.

ETA: Highlighted bit is a fair point. And it's basically a just a pet peeve of mine, won't actually change my vote. Maybe if they had had a primary I'd have voted for someone else but probably not, I'd probably still have voted for Halley in the GOP primary. Whitmer or Polis are both good choices. As I've said before, being gay won't matter for Polis. Sure, there are some folks that won't vote for a gay dude but they aren't voting for biden either, so that's a wash. Newsom has too much baggage.

 

[CarbShark]

Funny fact: Bill Clinton is younger than Joe Biden. And he entered service over 30 years ago.
It simply looks like nobody wants the job.

It's not the years, it's the mileage.

 

[CarbShark]

Who is the candidate then? Name the person who fits the bill for the Democrats.

Gavin Newsom. Our next President.

 

[stanfr]

Its funny, agree but, I'm not even really complaining that Biden is so old or appears so old, I'm complaining that some, most of his supporters seem to be in complete denial about it. It baffles me!

I could also complain about Trump being too old because he is, its just among the least of my complaints about trump. I'm also baffled by folks that support him but I don't think I have any chance of convincing them of anything. How do you convince someone that still supports Trump after he tried to steal the election of anything?
Please do vote for Biden if you live in a swing state. If you live in a solid blue or solid red state, vote for whoever you want, I recommend any third party but thats just me.

Completely agree. As for the highlighted, that obviously is the key point. His core supporters will never be convinced, even if he kills a puppy and live streams the execution--they've made that clear. But that still leaves about half of the Republicans, and a huge chunk of Independents who could potentially be convinced, and that's where all effort should be. They have to be shown that his recent convictions are the tip of the iceberg, that the 3 indictments remaining, which even T's allies admit are stronger and more serious cases, will/would result in 3 more convictions and the only way that won't happen is if he is reelected. Some will want that anyways, because they don't think letting national security or Democracy go down the drain is a big deal, but for those on the fence, they have to be shown that T is *not* the man or candidate he was in 2020. He is *significantly* more unstable and dangerous. You don't need leftist media to see it, just watch any of his recent speeches. This is not a mentally well man. He is babbling complete nonsense about sharks and batteries and George Soros. If those who are not in his cult are unable to see this, we have a serious problem on our hands. What we have here...is a failure to communicate

 

[Mike!]

Obviously what Biden needs to do is dye his hair a preposterous shade of golden over-blond, paint most of his face a completely unnatural color like orange, wear an ill fitting suit, tie his tie wrong, and get some spring soled shoes.
Instant, "New and Improved Joe Biden!", sort of like they used to do with other established products that needed a fresh kick.
That'll change everyone's attitude about his age overnight.

 

[stanfr]

Gavin Newsom. Our next President.

He is young enough and articulate, quick on his feet. He was probably smart to sit on the sidelines for now since it is win-win for him regardless of who wins in Nov. (unless T does establish himself as Supreme Leader)

I do wonder how he would withstand a concerted right wing attack. He is portrayed by the right as being to the left of Communist, and they point to California's many issues as evidence of his incompetence. I was born in CA, but I could not afford to move back, and I left in 2005 due to my inability to buy a home there. I spent the last 5 years in AZ catering (i owned a retail shop in Sedona) to a large number of Californians who were fleeing the state cause they could not deal with it. So I tend to think the right could galvanize support around the idea of not turning the country into California. De Santis was a conservative favorite until he ran against Trump and all of a sudden people start pointing out what a mess he was creating in FL. The national stage is a different ballgame.

 

[ahhell]

Also, the fact that there aren't a half dozen or so folks in their 40s through early 60s that aren't reasonable candidates is also the fault of the dems. And of course, the GOP has a similar problem but I don't care about that until the shake of the stink of the orange turd.

 

[stanfr]

Obviously what Biden needs to do is dye his hair a preposterous shade of golden over-blond, paint most of his face a completely unnatural color like orange, wear an ill fitting suit, tie his tie wrong, and get some spring soled shoes.
Instant, "New and Improved Joe Biden!", sort of like they used to do with other established products that needed a fresh kick.
That'll change everyone's attitude about his age overnight.

Or perhaps they should take the opposite approach; since most of T's supporters earnestly believe that Obama or Clinton is really running the show, they should go all out to concede, just admit that Biden's body has completely failed but his brain remains intact. Give him a Trek looking chair with an electronic voice box to communicate, kind of like Stephen Hawking's, and the voice will suspiciously sound just like Obama's...

 

[ZiprHead]

Merriam-Webster defines senile as:

of, relating to, exhibiting, or characteristic of old age

especially, : exhibiting a decline of cognitive abilities (such as memory) associated with old age

You pretty much checked all the boxes with your quote above. In other words, you agree that Joe Biden is senile.

What to know about senility and dementia

“Senility” and “being senile” are old-fashioned terms that doctors may have used to refer to dementia. Some people may use “senility” to describe a decrease in the ability to think, concentrate, or remember.

A contemporary term that doctors use is “neurocognitive disorder” which might be either minor or major. For example, they may diagnose minor neurocognitive disorder due to Alzheimer’s disease — a type of dementia.

Below, learn more about what senility and dementia mean, as well as dementia’s symptoms, causes, treatment, and prevention.

More in the link.

 

[The Atheist]

Really? DO you have a source on the claim that half the population have had emotionally abusive fathers?

Laughable response. It's actually only a quarter: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK470337/

The point is that there are hundreds of millions of kids abused by their father, yet you focus on that being why Hitler and Trump are alike.

Absurd.

... T lies ...

That pretty much sums up the whole thing - you can't even bring yourself to type his name. He's not Voldemort or Beetlejuice and appears if you say his name. TRUMP!

If you're that triggered by his mere name, you have a serious problem and it's easy to see why you'd make the idiotic claim that TRUMP is as bad (or worse, according to some) than Hitler.

That's why he was found liable for sexual assault...

Unlike Bill Clinton, TRUMP didn't have the luxury of a partisan vote on it. Also, he hasn't been convicted of any crime of a sexual nature.

I didn't see any admission. Have you been watching Fox News or something...

Never seen it in my life - we don't even have that crap over here.

So, TRUMP lies.

OMG!!1!! A politician who lies.

Clearly worse than Hitler

They need a replacement STAT!

No, they needed a replacement in 2014.

The Democratic Party really does make me laugh - they're set in their ways like a 90-year-old granny. "This is how we've always done it!"

It was decided by geniuses like Nancy Pelosi that it was Hillary's turn in 2016, because reasons. The obvious fact that she was hated by so many people completely escaped them and they paid for it.

Then, it was Biden's turn! Damn the fact that he's old man who almost certainly shouldn't have a current driving licence, it's his turn dammit!

A rotten banana that had been through the digestive system of a tapeworm would beat TRUMP, yet he's at worst neck-and-neck with Biden.

If Biden loses, you'll hear me laughing all the way from New Zealand.

The Lancet report estimated that 180,000 died from his policies, and has been cited by Forbes, Business Insider, Scientific American...and many other non 'leftist' publications. Do you have any study refuting this?

Estimate shmestiate. Lancet "estimated" a million Iraqis died in the invasion of the country. How acurate was that?

I compared America to OECD countries and there's very little difference between them. Arguing over a death rate variance of a couple of percent is irrelevant - he could have done a far worse job and there's no guarantee Hillary would have done better.

Ok, I concede I slightly misspoke, I meant to say if he *is* reelected, it will be fatal to any effort to halt or reverse climate change.

That's possibly right. I hope you don't have to find out, but I'm becoming more and more sure you will.

I have an MS in Atmospheric Science, so if you'd like I can go on for hours on why AGW is a serious problem, but you haven't taken issue with me yet on that, you just claim I'm exaggerating. You're wrong.

I and many others who are even more knowledgable on the subject can clearly see that T is mentally unwell--this is what makes him so dangerous.

Given my feelings on the psych industry, I find it utterly and predictably laughable that people try to diagnose him with mental illness on the basis of how he appears on TV. The Apprentice wasn't a documentary, but it did teach TRUMP how to act in front of cameras.

In down under terms, we just say he's a ****. Arrogant blowhard, but actually dangerous? He had four years and wasn't Greg Stillson. I think you guys are focusing on the wrong thing. TRUMP is bad - we get that but his supporters never will.

You seem unable or unwilling to understand his pathology. Let me try to educate with a typical example.

Oh please do...

Trump says he wants to be a dictator on day one.

Bingo!

And what do you think the chances are of that actually happening?

Even the clowns in the Capitol building aren't going to curl up and give him totalitarian powers. He knows that, you know that and even poor uneducated fools like me know that.

But you still fell for it.

I *am* serious--I'm nearly 6 decades on this planet and I've never seen anything close to the threat T poses to our very freedom and quality of life.

Statements like that almost make me hope he wins, just to see how these prophecies turn out.

Also, the fact that there aren't a half dozen or so folks in their 40s through early 60s that aren't reasonable candidates is also the fault of the dems.

Amen to that.

I made the comment the other day that if Michelle Obama somehow stepped in in place of Joe, she'd rival Reagan's landslide. The polls would be a source of enjoyment every time they were released and Republicans would be desperate to rid themselves of TRUMP.

This whole mess is 100% the Democrats' making.

 

[carlosy]

Gavin Newsom. Our next President.

I guess someone like him, yes.

I remember a documentary about some Democrat politician a few years ago. I guess he was only a mayor (probably of some city in the Rust Belt), not even a senator or higher up in the democratic party, afair. He was a down-to-earth guy, no-********ter, but reasonable, articulate and sharp. He didn't talk like the usual career politician. Powerfull physical and mental presence. At the end of the documentary they asked him if he could see himself being a candidate for POTUS. He wasn't sure about it, but didn't say no.

I don't remember his name.

 

[johnny karate]

How about his record disapproval ratings and that poll after poll has shown that the majority of Americans, including the Majority of Dems think he's too old?

That alone should have had the Dems looking for another candidate. Pretty much too late now but this was the case in 2023. It just weird.

But who is the candidate? There are risks associated with changing candidates and I don't think it's unreasonable for Democrats to look at the successes of the Biden presidency and think they could build a campaign around that. I know a lot of people do not like Biden and have issues with his policies, but by most metrics by which we measure the success of a presidency, he gets pretty good marks.

So saying Biden needs to be replaced isn't enough. It's got to be someone uniquely dynamic who can fire up the base and appeal to the middle. I've yet to see a viable option presented.

 

[stanfr]

Laughable response. It's actually only a quarter: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK470337/

The point is that there are hundreds of millions of kids abused by their father, yet you focus on that being why Hitler and Trump are alike.

Absurd.

It wasn't even my comment, and yet you admit your lie in response..,.good job

That pretty much sums up the whole thing - you can't even bring yourself to type his name. He's not Voldemort or Beetlejuice and appears if you say his name. TRUMP!

If you're that triggered by his mere name, you have a serious problem and it's easy to see why you'd make the idiotic claim that TRUMP is as bad (or worse, according to some) than Hitler.

Oh for friggin sake, I shorten it for brevity and that is all, I would rather not waste my time responding to your idiotic responses but since you evidently at least realize T is nuts, I feel it is important to point out your fallacies. And I would appreciate if you would stop LYING about my responses--I never said he was as bad as Hitler--I said he *could* become as bad. You apparently do not understand the distinction.

Unlike Bill Clinton, TRUMP didn't have the luxury of a partisan vote on it. Also, he hasn't been convicted of any crime of a sexual nature.

Incidentally, unlike most of my liberal friends, I never defended Bill, I thought he deserved impeachment. So stop straw manning and stop defending the indefensible!

Never seen it in my life - we don't even have that crap over here.

So, TRUMP lies.

OMG!!1!! A politician who lies.

Clearly worse than Hitler

Another straw man response...how long you been on this forum?

No, they needed a replacement in 2014.

The Democratic Party really does make me laugh - they're set in their ways like a 90-year-old granny. "This is how we've always done it!"

It was decided by geniuses like Nancy Pelosi that it was Hillary's turn in 2016, because reasons. The obvious fact that she was hated by so many people completely escaped them and they paid for it.

Then, it was Biden's turn! Damn the fact that he's old man who almost certainly shouldn't have a current driving licence, it's his turn dammit!

A rotten banana that had been through the digestive system of a tapeworm would beat TRUMP, yet he's at worst neck-and-neck with Biden.

If Biden loses, you'll hear me laughing all the way from New Zealand.

that may be why you aren't getting my urgency, you will not be immediately affected by the disaster.

Estimate shmestiate. Lancet "estimated" a million Iraqis died in the invasion of the country. How acurate was that?

I compared America to OECD countries and there's very little difference between them. Arguing over a death rate variance of a couple of percent is irrelevant - he could have done a far worse job and there's no guarantee Hillary would have done better.

Thanks for conceding my point and request. It is not based on speculation of what someone else would do, it's based on facts. Again, you weren't here so you didn't witness first hand how insane T's response was, when he was babbling about bleach and the China virus...

Given my feelings on the psych industry, I find it utterly and predictably laughable that people try to diagnose him with mental illness on the basis of how he appears on TV. The Apprentice wasn't a documentary, but it did teach TRUMP how to act in front of cameras.

In down under terms, we just say he's a ****. Arrogant blowhard, but actually dangerous? He had four years and wasn't Greg Stillson. I think you guys are focusing on the wrong thing. TRUMP is bad - we get that but his supporters never will.

Sigh...you are not listening! There were barriers in place during his last term. He now basically controls the Supreme Court, he has the entire GOP other than a few stragglers completely complicit in his plans, he has proclaimed he will weaponize the Justice Department. He is *not* the same person he was in those 4 years--the defeat in 2020 released his dormant lunacy. And he is not just being diagnosed based on his TV appearances (which are bad enough) but his behavior behind the scenes, and not just by psychaiatrists, but by many people close to him who got thrown under the bus because they did not offer complete and total loyalty to him, which he demands. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck...it's a Donald....DUCK!

Oh please do...



Bingo!

And what do you think the chances are of that actually happening?

Even the clowns in the Capitol building aren't going to curl up and give him totalitarian powers. He knows that, you know that and even poor uneducated fools like me know that.

But you still fell for it.

Ugh...I didn't 'fall' for anything!
Again, your reading comprehension skills are failing you. I never said he "will become a dictator" I said T *wants* to become one! Do you understand that distinction? Cause it is not that hard to understand, is it?

So, will he succeed? Of course not, not at first, but if you know history you know that the fall of civilizations take time, and fascism takes time to take root.

In the interim, there will be great and irreparable harm to our nation and our people. And I don't think it is an exaggeration to predict that T, if elected, will do everything in his power to ensure that either he is President for life, or that someone he controls takes his place. That is his desired goal, and everyone who has known him closely, from his personal attorneys to Cabinet appointees, to family members, have backed up my belief.

You seem to not understand how strongmen and fascists take and hold power--I mean, do you really believe the elections in Russia are fair?? Do you think Putin is the democratically elected leader? Cause from your responses, it sure seems you do.

Statements like that almost make me hope he wins, just to see how these prophecies turn out.

Why am I not surprised by that disturbing comment? I certainly don't even remotely want his to win, just so I can say "See, I told you so!"

Amen to that.

I made the comment the other day that if Michelle Obama somehow stepped in in place of Joe, she'd rival Reagan's landslide. The polls would be a source of enjoyment every time they were released and Republicans would be desperate to rid themselves of TRUMP.

This whole mess is 100% the Democrats' making.

No! It is Trump's making and the GOP's fault for being cowards and not stopping it. Do the Dems share some blame? Yes--but to say 100% is pure nonsense.

 

[johnny karate]

Gavin Newsom. Our next President.

He could definitely fire up the base, but I doubt his appeal to the middle. He comes across as the quintessential "liberal elite" the right is always raging against and they would have no problem whatsoever portraying him as exactly that to swing voters (this is the guy who defied his own Covid protocols to go to a swanky restaurant, after all). I also think he might have a higher than preferred risk for potential scandal, but in fairness, that's based on nothing more than a gut feeling.

 

[johnny karate]

No! It is Trump's making and the GOP's fault for being cowards and not stopping it. Do the Dems share some blame? Yes--but to say 100% is pure nonsense.

"It's the Dems fault!" remains a painfully stupid argument.

Democrats are 1-1 against Trump. Republicans are something like 0-15.

 

[ahhell]

Snip...
This whole mess is 100% the Democrats' making.

That goes to far, the Dems aren't running Trump, that mess, the far worse mess is of the GOP's making, also the Boomers, they're the ones that switched to all primaries which is why the GOP couldn't stop him in 2016. We should let the Parties choose candidates in smoked filled rooms like every other democracy.

But who is the candidate? There are risks associated with changing candidates and I don't think it's unreasonable for Democrats to look at the successes of the Biden presidency and think they could build a campaign around that. I know a lot of people do not like Biden and have issues with his policies, but by most metrics by which we measure the success of a presidency, he gets pretty good marks.

So saying Biden needs to be replaced isn't enough. It's got to be someone uniquely dynamic who can fire up the base and appeal to the middle. I've yet to see a viable option presented.

Its academic at this point because it is too risky to switch now that Biden is running but he shouldn't have run, in 2020, more or less ran saying he was only running once to beat Trump. It wouldn't have been a risk for him to make good on that.

It clearly doesn't have to be someone unquely dynamic, that's silly, unless you think Biden was uniquely dynamic in 2020. But again, you are basically right, its too late. The only way they could do it would be for him to announce at the convention that he has some new health issue that will keep him from running and then nominate someone else or actually have delegates vote on someone. Won't happen but I can dream.