2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker

[Skeptic Ginger]

For the record I repeat: Hugs would be sensitive. Kissing or smelling someone's hair, shoulder rubs, whispering in ears, and nose to nose forehead to forehead is creepy no matter who is doing it. It was creepy when GW rubbed Merkel's shoulders, completely inappropriate, unprofessional, and most certainly not an indication of a sensitive male.

The only exception was when Biden was standing behind the woman during her husband's swearing in and apparently Biden was good friends with the couple. That makes a difference, a personal thing rather than a 'how Biden sees women' thing.

 

[Delvo]

Wait... one Biden defense I saw a while ago was that it's not sexual, and now another one is that of course it clearly is sexual but that's only a problem because he's old (because obviously nobody ever objected to such behavior from a younger man ). They can't both be accurate.

When the defenders are reduced to stabbing in the dark for anything that might seem to work, and end up stabbing each other with their mutual contradictions, that's not a good sign for whomever/whatever they're defending.

(But also, these two contradictory descriptions are not created equal; the idea that this behavior isn't sexual is just ludicrous. Of course it is. That's patently obvious. Denial of that plain simple clear fact just can't be honest. There's no way your hand just happens to coincidentally linger right where a breast would be if she's old enough to have them, unless your goal is to find signs of the beginning of development of a breast for you to touch. And there's no way you give a woman's lower jaw & chin the "I'm about to kiss you" stroke unless you're thinking of kissing her and you're deliberately telling her so. That just isn't how reality works. And there's no way you do either one unless you think you're entitled to because serving your desires is what other people were put there for.)

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

While I think a young man behaving as Biden does would look just as creepy, if not incredibly corny, you make a good point there is an ageist element there as well. The idea that old men having any sort of sex drive makes them sexual deviants, not that any of his actions necessarily come from that.

I just think he is trying really hard to look presentable (in his mind) but it comes off very wrong.

One would have to think Biden's actions were sexual to see it this way. Has it dawned on any of you that invading personal space doesn't have to be sexual to be creepy? And that there is an element of sexism there some may not be picking up on?

You want me to think about why I see Biden this way, Tesla?

It's not warm and sensitive, it's unprofessional and condescending. The woman being seen like the kids he also did it to. "Cute kid" "darling little girl" instead of colleague.
I imagine that's a stretch for some of you just like it's a stretch for me to see his behavior as sexual. It wasn't sexual, it lacked respect for the professional relationship. That's why I said with the wife who was also a good friend was different.

 

[acbytesla]

How nice of you to analyze my emotional responses for me. You should have stopped at the first paragraph.

Could you not have said 'some women see Biden as a dirty old man' instead of projecting that crap on me?

Really? Understanding your thoughts on this is somehow wrong? I'm not projecting anything. I'm exploring your thinking. I do this to myself all the time. "Why did I think that?" Why did I react that way". "What is the reason for that epistemology?" I wish we would all do this a lot more. IMV, it would be only wrong if I was telling you why you thought that way which I certainly was not doing..

You'll notice I did not say you didn't care about the behavior because you are a privileged white male. This is what I said:
I don't find Franken attractive, he's certainly not young and I would not want to kiss him. You may recall in context, I did not find his behavior creepy.

I wouldn't have been offended if you suggested that this might be a reason why I think the way I do. Hell, it might be.

 

[acbytesla]

One would have to think Biden's actions were sexual to see it this way. Has it dawned on any of you that invading personal space doesn't have to be sexual to be creepy? And that there is an element of sexism there some may not be picking up on?

You want me to think about why I see Biden this way, Tesla?

It's not warm and sensitive, it's unprofessional and condescending. The woman being seen like the kids he also did it to. "Cute kid" "darling little girl" instead of colleague.
I imagine that's a stretch for some of you just like it's a stretch for me to see his behavior as sexual. It wasn't sexual, it lacked respect for the professional relationship. That's why I said with the wife who was also a good friend was different.

You misunderstand me. You're entitled to feeling uncomfortable when someone is invading your personal space and for any reason.

But I have a problem suggesting that someone who has a history of being tactile and affectionate with people as "creepy".

 

[Delvo]

The first line gives exactly how it perfectly fits the definition of "creepy"; the second claims that the word "creepy" still doesn't apply anyway.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Really? Understanding your thoughts on this is somehow wrong? I'm not projecting anything. I'm exploring your thinking. I do this to myself all the time. "Why did I think that?" Why did I react that way". "What is the reason for that epistemology?" I wish we would all do this a lot more. IMV, it would be only wrong if I was telling you why you thought that way which I certainly was not doing.

I wouldn't have been offended if you suggested that this might be a reason why I think the way I do. Hell, it might be.

Really? Doubling down?


When you get done reading my posts about what I actually think get back to me.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

You misunderstand me. You're entitled to feeling uncomfortable when someone is invading your personal space and for any reason.

But I have a problem suggesting that someone who has a history of being tactile and affectionate with people as "creepy".

When you read what I said more carefully, get back to me. Pay particular attention to unprofessional and condescending when women would like to be seen as colleagues.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The first line gives exactly how it perfectly fits the definition of "creepy"; the second claims that the word "creepy" still doesn't apply anyway.

 

[Delvo]

...Perhaps you're thinking of an older definition of "creepy" before it came to mean what it does now. I agree, it's not the same as if you were exploring an abandoned mental hospital and thought you saw something moving in the corner of your field of view but could never get a good look at it, or you were camping in the forest at night and kept hearing sounds that didn't sound like any animal you know of or thought you saw a giant with antlers and glowing eyes. But the word started shifting to precisely the situation you just described yourself, at least a decade ago, maybe more like two, and the new meaning has taken over in ordinary usage so much that I'd forgotten until now that it ever did mean something closer to "horrifying/terrifying". It's more reasonable for us to expect you to have kept up than for you to expect us to go retro with you.

 

[Brainster]

You thought The Little Prince was a teeth-pulling exercise?

Not difficult like Ulysses, but off-putting like Wolf Hall.

 

[The Atheist]

I don't like being told I must excuse this or that action of a Democrat for the greater good. Maybe the burden is on the politicians to not be such evil, greedy, shifty creeps rather than on the voters to let things go by? That more vitriol is flung at people who object to bad behavior than the people doing bad behavior is a symptom of corrupt values. I don't feel a moral necessity to excuse the objectionable for the purpose of giving them even more power than they already have.

If the Democrats want my vote they'll have to produce a candidate who would stand an even chance of not causing an incident where I would be compelled to slap their wrinkled old faces.

Post of the century to date.

The Democrats should use it as their mantra and tape it to the foreheads of anyone wanting the nomination.

To twist Melania's idiotic catch-phrase:

Be Better

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...

To twist Melania's idiotic catch-phrase:

Be Better

That's Michelle's.

Melania's semi-plagiarized catch-phrase is Be Best. Maybe it's her language difficulties.

 

[acbytesla]

When you read what I said more carefully, get back to me. Pay particular attention to unprofessional and condescending when women would like to be seen as colleagues.

I don't disagree with this or 95 percent of what you have said. I do have a problem with the description ""creepy" as if Biden is some guy in the park eyeing your children.

 

[theprestige]

I don't disagree with this or 95 percent of what you have said. I do have a problem with the description ""creepy" as if Biden is some guy in the park eyeing your children.

Except of course that it's exactly as if that. Change the venue and the victim category, and that's exactly what we're saying Biden is: some guy in [venue] eyeing [his preferred victims]. It's not like creepiness stops at the edge of the playground, or that creeps can't creep on adults.

 

[acbytesla]

Except of course that it's exactly as if that. Change the venue and the victim category, and that's exactly what we're saying Biden is: some guy in [venue] eyeing [his preferred victims]. It's not like creepiness stops at the edge of the playground, or that creeps can't creep on adults.

I KNOW that's what you would say. You have dissed every single Democrat as if that is a principle. So you will excuse us if we don't "embrace" your POV. Pun intended.

 

[Delvo]

Eyeing children: bad
Pawing children: OK

 

[The Atheist]

The people have spoken and Joe listened.

His response?

Double down by making jokes about it.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...n-touching-complaints-jokes-public-appearance

 

[theprestige]

I KNOW that's what you would say. You have dissed every single Democrat as if that is a principle. So you will excuse us if we don't "embrace" your POV. Pun intended.

LOL. Ad hominem much?

I've dissed every single Republican, too. Because that is my principle.

 

[acbytesla]

LOL. Ad hominem much?

I've dissed every single Republican, too. Because that is my principle.

It is not an ad hominem. It's a fair observation. Which you aren't even denying. You'll have to excuse me when I say I don't recall you dissing Trump.