2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker

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Delphic Oracle said:
Fair enough.

Full disclosure, however. After seeing this:



I lost interest in discussing this with you further.
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My position is somewhere in between yours and The Atheist. While I think not wanting to be roommates with someone because they are black, white, gay, straight, etc is discrimination and probably makes you a ****** person, I do think it should be legally allowed. The same is true for who you choose to date. Your personal relationships are your choice even if morally questionable. Where I differ is I don't think this should apply to business. Goods and services should not be allowed to be discriminatory whether provided by government or privately business.

So I don't have much of a problem with the part you quoted, but this bit on the other hand...

The Atheist said:
Anyway, as a recruiter, I can assure you that the rules mean absolutely nothing. If an employer doesn't want to hire people of a certain sector, they pay me to make sure they don't get any black/green/purple candidates. I love the laws that forbid discrimination, because I make a significant percentage of my money from people paying me to avoid the legislation.
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Disgusting
 
The_Animus said:
My position is somewhere in between yours and The Atheist. While I think not wanting to be roommates with someone because they are black, white, gay, straight, etc is discrimination and probably makes you a ****** person, I do think it should be legally allowed. The same is true for who you choose to date. Your personal relationships are your choice even if morally questionable. Where I differ is I don't think this should apply to business. Goods and services should not be allowed to be discriminatory whether provided by government or privately business.

So I don't have much of a problem with the part you quoted, but this bit on the other hand...



Disgusting
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Why is that disgusting?
 
The_Animus said:
My position is somewhere in between yours and The Atheist. While I think not wanting to be roommates with someone because they are black, white, gay, straight, etc is discrimination and probably makes you a ****** person, I do think it should be legally allowed. The same is true for who you choose to date. Your personal relationships are your choice even if morally questionable. Where I differ is I don't think this should apply to business. Goods and services should not be allowed to be discriminatory whether provided by government or privately business.



So I don't have much of a problem with the part you quoted, but this bit on the other hand...







Disgusting
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"Having a roommate" isn't a whimsical decision, it involves laws pertaining to real estate which forbid discrimination. Renting is a commercial activity.

Informal renting is actually not supposed to be a thing (and has ended countless friendships that I've seen).

ETA: even Craigslist removes ads for rooms to rent that declares any protected classes are barred from consideration or will be refused outright.
 
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Delphic Oracle said:
"Having a roommate" isn't a whimsical decision, it involves laws pertaining to real estate which forbid discrimination. Renting is a commercial activity.
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I'm talking about a different situation to renting a house. I'm on the subject of someone wanting to invite a roommate in to share their own house. That is protected by law in NZ and they can discriminate as much as they want, which is as it should be.
 
Hmm...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-07/timeline-in-ukraine-probe-casts-doubt-on-giuliani-s-biden-claim

Kasko’s assessment adds a wrinkle to one of the first political intrigues of the 2020 election season. It undercuts the idea that Biden, now a top Democratic presidential candidate, was seeking to sideline a prosecutor who was actively threatening a company tied to his son. Instead, it appears more consistent with Biden’s previous statements that he was pressing for the removal of a prosecutor who was failing to tackle rampant corruption: According to public reports and internal documents from the Ukrainian prosecutor’s office, U.S. officials had expressed concern for more than a year about Ukrainian prosecutors’ failure to assist an international investigation of Zlochevsky.
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alfaniner said:
Actually, I've always been pretty neutral on Hillary. I never understood why so many people just hated her.
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Nurture, not nature. Like the songs says, "You've Got to Be Carefully Taught". The pinhead brigade in America is never short of members. All it takes twenty-five years of talk radio telling them "She's a Witch! A Witch, I Say!" and they get accustomed to it and it becomes their reality.
 
The Atheist said:
I'm talking about a different situation to renting a house. I'm on the subject of someone wanting to invite a roommate in to share their own house. That is protected by law in NZ and they can discriminate as much as they want, which is as it should be.
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Most law I'm familiar with says once money changes hands for some kind of service or property, "informal-finschmormal" you're conducting commercial activity and conduct around that has social consequences.

But, as has been pointed out, epic derail :9.
 
Foolmewunz said:
Nurture, not nature. Like the songs says, "You've Got to Be Carefully Taught". The pinhead brigade in America is never short of members. All it takes twenty-five years of talk radio telling them "She's a Witch! A Witch, I Say!" and they get accustomed to it and it becomes their reality.
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You do realise that a lot of people did not want her to be president because her policies were too far to the right for them?
 
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Lambchops said:
You do realise that a lot of people did not want her to be president because her policies were too far to the right for them?
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You nailed it. Right on. Way to go! That's totally it bro. Another hard-hitting analysis of contemporary US politics by an international skeptic.
 
Lambchops said:
You do realise that a lot of people did not want her to be president because her policies were too far to the right for them?
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That's not surprising, especially since Sanders was the one primary competitor.

But as for "a lot of people", she won the popular vote by almost 3 million. Yet people ignore that and talk like everyone agrees she was the unlikeable bitch they personally imagine.

Newsflash: left wing Clinton haters are in the minority. No one rigged the primary, Clinton won, Sanders lost.
 
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alfaniner said:
Actually, I've always been pretty neutral on Hillary. I never understood why so many people just hated her.
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30 years of a coordinated campaign to demonize the Clintons was incredibly successful. Bill got impeached for lying about a BJ while HRC was defeated for being a villainous liar who sold uranium to the Ruskies and garnered untold $millions for the Clinton Foundation. What more is there?
 
Lambchops said:
You do realise that a lot of people did not want her to be president because her policies were too far to the right for them?
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I'm one of those people. But I found Obama too far to the right. But I compromised based on what the GOP has become and would've supported Hillary over any GOP candidate; Trump even more so.
 
SezMe said:
Jesus, Bob, maybe give even a wee bit of a think before asking an utterly inane question.
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I'm not so presumptuous to conclude the argument I think they are making is their actual argument. I'm going to give the courtesy of them explaining their argument rather than mansplain their argument to them.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
That's not surprising, especially since Sanders was the one primary competitor.

But as for "a lot of people", she won the popular vote by almost 3 million. Yet people ignore that and talk like everyone agrees she was the unlikeable bitch they personally imagine.

Newsflash: left wing Clinton haters are in the minority. No one rigged the primary, Clinton won, Sanders lost.
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Yes Clinton won the popular vote by 3 million. Yes she won the democratic primary as centrists are still the majority of that demographic. Those are facts.

It's also a fact that in regard to the general election she underperformed according to the numbers.

The_Animus said:
It's interesting looking at the numbers for the past few presidential elections

2008: McCain received approximately 60 million votes
2008: Obama received approximately 69.5 million votes
Total votes cast among all candidates approximately 131 million

2012: Romney received approximately 61 million votes
2012: Obama received approximately 66 million votes
Total votes cast among all candidates approximately 129 Million

2016: Trump received approximately 63 million votes
2016: Clinton received approximately 66 million votes
Total votes cast among all candidates approximately 136 million

Millions more people voted in 2016 compared to 2012 or 2008. Republicans picked up a couple million votes. Independent candidates received about 1.7 million votes in 2012 compared to 6.6 million in 2016. Four times as much. That is a significant number of people who were disaffected with the main party candidates.

Clinton got 3 million more votes than Trump and the same number as Obama did in 2012, but 7 million more people voted in 2016 compared to 2012. The fact that Republicans and Independents gained large numbers of votes but Clinton gained nothing tells us that Clinton was not a strong candidate.
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And this is with who knows how many people who didn't even like Clinton but voted for her anyway because the alternative was worse.
 
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And this is with who knows how many people who didn't even like Trump but voted for him anyway because the alternative was worse.
 
Caligula would have to be resurrected and nominated to get a worse alternative than Trump.
 
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