2020 Democratic Candidates Tracker - Part II

[TragicMonkey]

Wait, this isn't the hard flouncing thread?

I can't read "hard flouncing" without imagining it as a sex act.

 

[Belz...]

I can't read "hard flouncing" without imagining it as a sex act.

Well, that's a relief. I thought it was just me.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I can't read "hard flouncing" without imagining it as a sex act.

Well, that's a relief. I thought it was just me.

It's the only reason I click on the thread.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I haven't been keeping up but I can think of what might be an effective strategy but would probably be seen as risky. And that is rebranding what some people seem to consider "far left," thanks to very consistent messaging by the Republican Party.

Universal health care is not far left.
Safeguarding our elections is not far left.
Standing with allies is not far left.
Standing up to dictators is not far left.
Affordable education is not far left.
A non-political Supreme Court is not far left.
Background checks are not far left.

The above issues largely have to do with branding themselves as centrists. Some people will say that is the exact opposite of what they should be doing.
When Democratic candidates talk about free college, are they also talking about free tuition at trade schools? IMO they need to frame issues in ways that appeal to conservative values. Because Democrats are actually more conservative than the Republicans are at the moment. Blowing up trade relationships is not conservative. Neither IMO is outlawing abortion at this point.

Who would be saying we shouldn't frame these ideas as moderate?

The free college is one of those issues that IMO is being poorly framed. It needs to be framed as "affordable college" and I agree adding trade school tuition assistance is important.

While I didn't watch the 7 hours behind a paywall debate on climate change, reports this morning (Democracy Now) were that Warren emphasized retraining people who lose jobs to clean energy. That is critical messaging that Clinton missed on the coal issue.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

From that link it is not clear to me what "go after" really means. Supposing they do find something, I dunno, dirty(?), about some reporter, so what. Will the very media they are targeting print the dirt. I doubt it.

The whole thing sounds like, "Way, way, some in the media don't like us." It's just another effort to pry money out of the fat cats to enrich the "campaign consultant" class.

It's not about the media printing it, it's about spreading it on social media.

Edited to add after being reminded, and there is plenty of right wing media who happily spread this stuff.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Well, that's a relief. I thought it was just me.

But not a good sex act. The kind one does because there's no other options, perhaps because of limited time or precarious privacy, or having broken limbs.

 

[Belz...]

But not a good sex act. The kind one does because there's no other options, perhaps because of limited time or precarious privacy, or having broken limbs.

I thought the term for that was "brokeback mountain"?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Biden is a very healthy young man who has the normal amount of eye bleeding.

not that I think that this is a good reason to not support Biden, but I hope it undercuts him anyway.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Biden is a very healthy young man who has the normal amount of eye bleeding.

not that I think that this is a good reason to not support Biden, but I hope it undercuts him anyway.

Wait, eye bleeding? Did that happen?

 

[TragicMonkey]

I thought the term for that was "brokeback mountain"?

No, to brokeback mountain is to culturally appropriate while wearing gayface.

 

[kellyb]

The free college is one of those issues that IMO is being poorly framed. It needs to be framed as "affordable college"

I'd be interested to see a focus group result comparing the two.

As long as it can be demonstrated to not do something awful to the economy, I suspect most people prefer "free".

What do you see as the problem here?
https://www.vox.com/2019/4/22/18509196/elizabeth-warren-debt-free-college

The plan would cancel up to $50,000 in student loan debt for an estimated 42 million Americans, and invest in debt-free college for students attending two- or four-year public institutions. It also comes with a hefty price tag of $1.25 trillion over 10 years. Warren plans to pay for it with the ultra-millionaire tax she introduced in January, which would tax the 75,000 wealthiest families in America.

Make public two- and four-year institutions tuition-free and expand Pell Grant funding to go toward additional college costs like housing, transportation, food, and books.

I suspect most people are skeptical about things being marketed by politicians as "affordable" now.

I think when many people hear "affordable", they're going to think of stuff like this.

So, I'd be surprised if people were more enthusiastic about "affordable" college compared to "tuition-free" and "debt-free".

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Wait, eye bleeding? Did that happen?

yes, during the climate change panel on CNN. A vessel in his eye burst and there was a large blood spot.

https://twitter.com/WalkerBragman/status/1169405162370273280?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1169405162370273280&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fknowyourmeme.com%2Fmemes%2Fjoe-bidens-bleeding-eye

 

[TragicMonkey]

yes, during the climate change panel on CNN. A vessel in his eye burst and there was a large blood spot.

https://twitter.com/WalkerBragman/status/1169405162370273280?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1169405162370273280&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fknowyourmeme.com%2Fmemes%2Fjoe-bidens-bleeding-eye

Good lord. From stress? Or just falling apart, Skeksis-style?

 

[Belz...]

Good lord. From stress? Or just falling apart, Skeksis-style?

Not enough essence of Gelfling in his cereals this morning.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Not enough essence of Gelfling in his cereals this morning.

They're Aughrrrrrrreat!

 

[Belz...]

They're Aughrrrrrrreat!

Movie-related puns are the best. We should stop arguing with each other and just quote movies and other forms of fiction all the time.

 

[TragicMonkey]

Movie-related puns are the best. We should stop arguing with each other and just quote movies and other forms of fiction all the time.

How do you mean, fiction? The Dark Crystal is a historical documentary. My family legend proves it, as I am 1/64th Skeksis on my mother's side.

 

[Belz...]

How do you mean, fiction? The Dark Crystal is a historical documentary. My family legend proves it, as I am 1/64th Skeksis on my mother's side.

That's very insulting to the Skekses community, and don't you dare get a DNA test for that, 'Chamberlain'.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'd be interested to see a focus group result comparing the two.

As long as it can be demonstrated to not do something awful to the economy, I suspect most people prefer "free".

Based on what?

What do you see as the problem here?
https://www.vox.com/2019/4/22/18509196/elizabeth-warren-debt-free-college

The plan is okay, the framing is troublesome.

I suspect most people are skeptical about things being marketed by politicians as "affordable" now.

Of course they are. I am too.

So, I'd be surprised if people were more enthusiastic about "affordable" college compared to "tuition-free" and "debt-free".

Again, who are you referring to?

 

[kellyb]

Based on what?

It's a suspicion based on the possibility/probability that "most people are skeptical about things being marketed by politicians as "affordable" now."

The plan is okay, the framing is troublesome.

Why do you think the frame is troublesome?

Again, who are you referring to?

Americans. Voters.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/col...mericans-support-free-college-tuition-n620856

This might be an idea whose time has come: Nearly two-thirds of Americans are in favor of free college for everyone, and about three-quarters think at least some people should be eligible for free college, a new survey shows.

Another link on it here:
https://www.bankrate.com/finance/consumer-index/money-pulse-0816.aspx

Should college be free?
On another survey question, 62% of all Americans support making tuition to public colleges and universities free to anyone who wants to attend, with millennials most in favor, at a hefty 77%

It's a 3 year old survey, but I don't think people have decided to oppose it since then.

There's also this poll with different results, though, where "against" narrowly beats "for":
https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2617

It might be the difference (in part) between framing it as "tuition-free" (or "debt-free") vs simply "free"?

ETA:

There's also this poll from just a year ago, where Reuters framed it as "FREE COLLEGE TUITION?(For those who meet income levels, paid for by taxing speculative trading)"

And:

the idea has solid support: Seventy-nine percent of Democrats and 60 percent of those polled said they support the idea. It’s even got support among a significant minority of Republicans, 41 percent. (Fifty percent of Republicans opposed the idea.)