Merged 2019-nCoV / Corona virus

[Giordano]

Dreadful nonsense. The coronavirus is a picornavirus. This type of virus is extremely small in size (hence the word, 'pico':

https://healthjade.net/picornavirus/

The HIV virus is a retrovirus (imagine a DNA helix back to front, hence 'retro') it acts as a mirror to bodily cells and replicates that way.

https://www.yourdictionary.com/retrovirus

There is no way a picornavirus can interact with a retrovirus or originate or mutate from one.

No, coronaviruses are not picornaviruses in any way, manner, or form. Or vis-versa. Think of it as humans and birds both fit under the very broad category vertebrates, but humans are not birds and birds are not humans.

Most viruses are pretty damn small, and this is not why picornaviruses are called what they are. The name came from them having a small RNA genome, but this is not the only criterion that is used to define what are picornaviruses and what are not. Coronaviruses do not fit these criteria. In fact coronavirus and picornaviruses are far, far more different from one another than are humans and birds.

You know you can look this stuff up online before posting...

 

[Trebuchet]

Just saw the news that the Snohomish county man, the first case of novel coronavirus in the US, has been released from the hospital. That's some good news.

Omigod, I used to live there! And there was an Asian lady at the gym this morning!! I'm probably infected!!! I'm gonna DIIIIIE!!!!

Eventually. Seriously, that's about how much of the news about this sounds.

 

[dudalb]

Video of people falling over in the streets has been making the rounds. I've seen it. The video in question only shows a few people, it's not even clear when or where the different clips were taken, and there's no indication that they're dead rather than passed out.

It's an almost certainty that the number of deaths are being understated, and there are multiple stories of people saying that their relative died of coronavirus but the death certificate just says pneumonia. But it's not at all clear how understated the numbers are. I wouldn't bet it's in the thousands, but I wouldn't guarantee it's not either. That's the problem with China: you just don't know.

Not even any indication if the coronavirus is reponsble for the people falling down.
But,yeah, the Chinese Government is not a source I would trust very much.

 

[The Atheist]

That's the problem with China: you just don't know.

But,yeah, the Chinese Government is not a source I would trust very much.

Hell yeah, let the xenophobia flow, boys!

I'm pretty sure you are both American, and I'd trust Xi further than I'd trust your human mutation you have as president right now. I ask again, how do you think USA would respond to two states being cut off by armed guards.

If anything, you should be thanking your lucky stars this is happening in China - so far.

"Woo, some people aren't being seen at the hospital!!111!!"
"Woo, there are problems!!11!"

Right now, China has 2788 patients listed as critical.

Then ask yourself how USA, or any other damned country, would handle that in their over-loaded and under-staffed hospital systems. (The sub-question of which ones are insured is hardly even relevant)

They fumbled the ball at the start, but right now, China should be being praised for doing such an amazing job. They are screening people trying to leave the goddamned place. I don't even need to ask you how that would go down in the land of the free and home of the cowards brave.

Criticism of China right now is pure racist baloney.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

...

Right now, China has 2788 patients listed as critical. .

I can't find such a number anywhere.

From CNN today:

The health authority said 10,990 patients have been hospitalized in Hubei, including 576 who are in critical condition.

https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-03-20-intl-hnk/index.html?ref=hvper.com

 

[Ziggurat]

Hell yeah, let the xenophobia flow, boys!

I'm pretty sure you are both American, and I'd trust Xi further than I'd trust your human mutation you have as president right now. I ask again, how do you think USA would respond to two states being cut off by armed guards.

If anything, you should be thanking your lucky stars this is happening in China - so far.

"Woo, some people aren't being seen at the hospital!!111!!"
"Woo, there are problems!!11!"

Right now, China has 2788 patients listed as critical.

Then ask yourself how USA, or any other damned country, would handle that in their over-loaded and under-staffed hospital systems. (The sub-question of which ones are insured is hardly even relevant)

They fumbled the ball at the start, but right now, China should be being praised for doing such an amazing job. They are screening people trying to leave the goddamned place. I don't even need to ask you how that would go down in the land of the free and home of the cowards brave.

Criticism of China right now is pure racist baloney.

China is a communist dictatorship. That isn’t racist baloney. And I said nothing about whether the quarantine was the right move or not, I said that you can’t trust them to tell the truth. That too has nothing to do with race. It’s possible they are taking all the right actions but still lying about the infection numbers. Or maybe they are telling the truth, but how would we know? Because it’s a dictatorship, there are no independent sources of reliable information about this.

I wouldn’t trust the North Korean government at all, but the South Korean government is fairly honest (and I don’t rate my own any higher than that). What separates North Korea from South Korea? Not race, but one being a dictatorship and one being a democracy. If you don’t understand how that influences the honesty of a government, then you’re an idiot.

And lastly, your Trump derangement has blinded you to the fact that in a situation like this, the person at the top isn’t who matters most. It’s the institutions on the ground and the local politicians that really matter the most. And given that we already know the local Chinese politicians lied, why are you trying to act like China is trustworthy? Again, this has nothing to do with race, though you seem to be incapable of thinking in any different terms.

 

[The Atheist]

I can't find such a number anywhere.

From CNN today:
https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-02-03-20-intl-hnk/index.html?ref=hvper.com

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_2019–20_Wuhan_coronavirus_outbreak#Cases_statistics

 

[The Atheist]

...I said that you can’t trust them to tell the truth..

When I see you levelling the same criticism at a president who's made 15,000 false or misleading statements in under three years I'll take note of anything you say.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...as-made-false-or-misleading-claims-over-days/

I've criticised China on plenty of occasions - especially their appalling human rights record.

Credit where credit's due is often a hard concept for some people to grasp.

 

[The Atheist]

Just for the record, I'll note that these questions were completely ignored:

I ask again, how do you think USA would respond to two states being cut off by armed guards.

Then ask yourself how USA, or any other damned country, would handle that in their over-loaded and under-staffed hospital systems. (The sub-question of which ones are insured is hardly even relevant)

Instead of worrying about whom to trust, think about those and get back to me.

 

[angrysoba]

When I see you levelling the same criticism at a president who's made 15,000 false or misleading statements in under three years I'll take note of anything you say.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...as-made-false-or-misleading-claims-over-days/

I've criticised China on plenty of occasions - especially their appalling human rights record.

Credit where credit's due is often a hard concept for some people to grasp.

Just for the record, I'll note that these questions were completely ignored:



Instead of worrying about whom to trust, think about those and get back to me.

None of that is really relevant though, is it?

What people in this thread want is information about the coronavirus and to discuss that information. Because the coronavirus is happening in China you necessarily have to wrestle with the question of how trustworthy the information coming from the Chinese government is.

What we don’t need to do in this thread is discuss hypotheticals about what Trump would do if the coronavirus had started in the US.

 

[Roboramma]

This may be of interest:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-treatment-cocktail-of-flu-hiv-drugs-2020-2

BANGKOK (Reuters) - Thai doctors have seen success in treating severe cases of the new coronavirus with a combination of medications for flu and HIV, with initial results showing vast improvement 48 hours after applying the treatment, they said on Sunday.

The doctors from Rajavithi Hospital in Bangkok said a new approach in coronavirus treatment had improved the condition of several patients under their care, including one 70-year-old Chinese woman from Wuhan who tested positive for the coronavirus for 10 days.

 

[Roboramma]

By the way, I don't think I mentioned the latest news I have from here, which is that we've been told to stay closed until Feb 29. I think this applies to schools as well.

Went out for a walk today. Still very quiet in the streets.

 

[The Atheist]

What people in this thread want is information about the coronavirus and to discuss that information. Because the coronavirus is happening in China you necessarily have to wrestle with the question of how trustworthy the information coming from the Chinese government is.

I disagree and pretty well every criticism and CT is just racism wrapped in a thin veneer of "what ifs".

Given the very small number of cases they're exporting, we can say with certainty they're doing something right.

What's not to trust?

When WHO and other non-partisan organisations are comfortable with where China's at, it seems incumbent to trust them at least that far.

The question of how other countries would handle it has nothing to do with Trump - it's merely coincidental that he's president. I just find it amusing that Xi isn't trustworthy while a total lying piece of **** sits in the White House. Clean your own back yard first I say.

More importantly, I don't believe the US - or any other country - would have been able to deal with this outbreak as China has. No hospital system is designed to cope with the workload they're getting and I can't think of another country that would be able to ship in two entire hospitals in a fortnight. You'll certainly see what I mean if the outbreak isn't contained - my earlier estimate of 3,000,000 dead will be well short.

China's response has been a massive and superb logistical exercise and should be being praised, not knocked by clowns with an agenda.

 

[The Atheist]

By the way, I don't think I mentioned the latest news I have from here, which is that we've been told to stay closed until Feb 29. I think this applies to schools as well.

Went out for a walk today. Still very quiet in the streets.

At least you're in China.

In NZ, some 10,000 km from the outbreak, in a country with zero cases of coronavirus, when I went to the pharmacist today to buy some electrolytes, all of the staff were wearing face masks. Nowhere near any tourist haunts, I might add.

Feb 29 is a long way off, but the last couple of days have shown a levelling of the logarithmic growth, so there are positive signs.

 

[Roboramma]

Feb 29 is a long way off, but the last couple of days have shown a levelling of the logarithmic growth, so there are positive signs.

Yeah, it seems to have slowed down for the past week as far as I can tell, but hard to say what will happen over the next couple of weeks. I'm optimistic that quarantines and behavior changes (everyone staying home, for instance) are slowing it down. But it's a little too early to tell right now.

 

[The Atheist]

But it's a little too early to tell right now.

True that.

Then you factor in complete unknowns like whether the virus will mutate, which we won't know until it happens!

Interesting times.

Thanks for the first-hand descriptions of what's going on.

 

[Ziggurat]

When I see you levelling the same criticism at a president who's made 15,000 false or misleading statements in under three years I'll take note of anything you say.

You shouldn’t need me to tell you that you can’t trust the CCP. Everything about Trump is off topic and irrelevant to that.

I've criticised China on plenty of occasions - especially their appalling human rights record.

They will commit all sorts of abuses, but they won’t lie? That’s somehow a bridge too far for them?

Can you even hear yourself?

Credit where credit's due is often a hard concept for some people to grasp.

As I already said, I’m not criticizing their quarantine efforts.

 

[Ziggurat]

I disagree and pretty well every criticism and CT is just racism wrapped in a thin veneer of "what ifs".

So when Chinese citizens complain that their own government isn’t telling the truth, they’re being racist? That’s a galaxy brain take.

Given the very small number of cases they're exporting, we can say with certainty they're doing something right.

Maybe, but that doesn’t mean they are telling the truth about the numbers. These are two different things.

What's not to trust?

Dictators, that’s what.

Look, the CCP does have an interest in not exporting the disease. So it’s not unreasonable to think they will try to prevent that, which is good. But they also have an interest in under-reporting the numbers. Why on earth do you think they wouldn’t? And what the hell does that have to do with race?

The question of how other countries would handle it has nothing to do with Trump - it's merely coincidental that he's president. I just find it amusing that Xi isn't trustworthy while a total lying piece of **** sits in the White House. Clean your own back yard first I say.

Nothing anyone here has said depends in any way on Trump being trustworthy.

More importantly, I don't believe the US - or any other country - would have been able to deal with this outbreak as China has.

We could take this as a given and it still wouldn’t mean the numbers China is giving out are honest.

China's response has been a massive and superb logistical exercise and should be being praised, not knocked by clowns with an agenda.

Once again, I never once criticized China’s efforts at containment.

 

[Vixen]

Vixen, your grasp of genetics is poor, you should avoid commenting on technical issues.

Coronaviruses are NOT Picornaviruses. Corona viruses are so called because of the crown like appearance of their capsule. They are large RNA viruses (positive single stranded RNA genome). Picornaviruses have capsules with an icosahedral structure, and are small RNA single stranded viruses. Retroviruses are a third group of RNA containing viruses. Retroviruses are defined by possessing a reverse transcriptase. Whilst most RNA viruses directly replicate RNA to RNA, and translate RNA to protein, retroviruses transcribe their RNA into DNA which can integrate into the host genome then hijack cellular processes to synthesise proteins and replicate themselves. (Aproximately 10% of DNA in our chromosomes originates from genes left behind by retroviruses, although much is nonsense some viruses have left genes that are now essential to life, in reality we are chimeras part animal (eukaryote), part virus, part bacteria.)

If there are simultaneous infections by two different viruses within one cell it is possible for viruses to integrate RNA from different viruses. In fact DNA viruses can even pick up bacterial and eukaryotic DNA and carry genes between species.

Coronavirus is a picornavirus like.

 

[Vixen]

No, coronaviruses are not picornaviruses in any way, manner, or form. Or vis-versa. Think of it as humans and birds both fit under the very broad category vertebrates, but humans are not birds and birds are not humans.

Most viruses are pretty damn small, and this is not why picornaviruses are called what they are. The name came from them having a small RNA genome, but this is not the only criterion that is used to define what are picornaviruses and what are not. Coronaviruses do not fit these criteria. In fact coronavirus and picornaviruses are far, far more different from one another than are humans and birds.

You know you can look this stuff up online before posting...

Perhaps you are the one that is ignorant and should look up stuff. Coronavirus is picornavirus like. Picornavruses are named thus because they are small. Try not to be rude in future.