Cont: 2019-nCoV / Corona virus Pt 3

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

Meanwhile in Cuba...

Erk. Seems to me that giving water to people and telling them that that'll help protect them from the disease is only going to lead to people engaging in more risky behaviour and thereby facilitate the spread.

 

[Rolfe]

Probably a question of poverty rather than ethnicity. In the USA, blacks and Hispanics seem to be affected disproportionally:
Coronavirus and Capitalism, post 170
Coronavirus and Capitalism, post 166

All the doctors in England who have died of coronavirus so far have been of middle eastern ethnicity.

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

I've seen the claim in a couple of places that a cost to the US economy of $100 million leads to 1 additional death due to more people being forced into poverty.

Yes, it's true that the economy crashing isn't without its victims. That should definitely be remembered.

But it should also be remembered that some of that impact can be ameliorated by policies which care for the vulnerable. Spain is rolling out Universal Basic Income, which should go a long way towards shielding everybody from the negative effects the economy is suffering.

 

[Belz...]

But then again, why not give people placebo if nothing better is available?

Because it might cause them to put themselves and others at risk, thinking they are safer than they really are. That's why not.

 

[Belz...]

Yes, it's true that the economy crashing isn't without its victims. That should definitely be remembered.

And also we should remember that human lives are not always the ultimate thing in terms of value. Otherwise highway speed limits would be at 20.

 

[Cheetah]

Ditto New Zealand.
The pied piper gathered up the bucky balls.

We peaked at 243 new cases on 27 Mar, since then around 50 per day average.

Cases of COVID-19 in South Africa 11 April

Total cases: 2028
25 New cases
410 Full recoveries (Confirmed Negative)

Seems too good to be true.

 

[Mader Levap]

Plus, what will the economic impact of losing tens-to-hundreds of thousands of sources of productivity and/or aggregate demand?

Assuming, of course, we've accepted the underlying premise that there's a dollar limit beyond which we find human suffering and death negotiable.

Economy in crap will also kill a lot of people. So it is balancing act.

And yes, there IS "dollar limit beyond which we find human suffering and death negotiable". Otherwise things like cars and houses and pretty much anything manmade that can kill you wouldn't exist.

 

[Marcus]

Plus, what will the economic impact of losing tens-to-hundreds of thousands of sources of productivity and/or aggregate demand?

Assuming, of course, we've accepted the underlying premise that there's a dollar limit beyond which we find human suffering and death negotiable.

If there is not a dollar limit beyond which we find human suffering and death negotiable, we should be doing lots of other things as well, like making motor vehicles illegal.


ETA: Never mind, I see I was already ninja'd by others

 

[JeanTate]

I've seen the claim in a couple of places that a cost to the US economy of $100 million leads to 1 additional death due to more people being forced into poverty.

IIRC, there is a good article on this general question in a recent issue of The Economist*.

The relationship between economic cycles and deaths, cet. par., is pro-cyclical: in boom times deaths go up; in recessions they go down.

*which I seem to have misplaced. It may the one with the charts/graphs in Matthew Best’s recent post.

 

[dann]

All the doctors in England who have died of coronavirus so far have been of middle eastern ethnicity.

But doctors and other health-care workers are a special case in this respect. The amount of virus as well as stress may be important:
Coronavirus: does the amount of virus you are exposed to determine how sick you’ll get? (The Conversation, April 7, 2020)

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

IIRC, there is a good article on this general question in a recent issue of The Economist*.

The relationship between economic cycles and deaths, cet. par., is pro-cyclical: in boom times deaths go up; in recessions they go down.

*which I seem to have misplaced. It may the one with the charts/graphs in Matthew Best’s recent post.

Hmm, there are some hints that this is true on this page:
https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/death-rate

 

[carlitos]

After decades of hearing about the relatively great Cuban medical system, To learn that there is homeopathy mixed in with regular health care is disappointing. Doubly so in a time of pandemic.

 

[Planigale]

After decades of hearing about the relatively great Cuban medical system, To learn that there is homeopathy mixed in with regular health care is disappointing. Doubly so in a time of pandemic.

As a medical student the best lecture (or the one I remember) was from the local exorcist. I did not realise that the C of E normally a pretty down to earth organisation for a religious body had exorcists. Much to my surprise apart from being a Vicar the exorcist was also a trained clinical psychologist, so he actually understood about mental illness. For someone who was and is a complete atheist, he managed to convince me that there might be a situation when I might want the local exorcist, even after some years I still feel that if the situation called for it I would be prepared to agree to exorcism. So, whilst I think homeopathy is nonsense, medics aren't stupid and sometimes with people a non-scientific approach may be right, and learning about alternative medicine is not a bad thing so long as you have an appropriate rationale scientific skeleton to hang it on.

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

My thoughts, exactly. But then again, why not give people placebo if nothing better is available?

Because it's a waste of time and resources and promotes a bad mindset and ideology of fake medicine?

 

[Meadmaker]

Plus, what will the economic impact of losing tens-to-hundreds of thousands of sources of productivity and/or aggregate demand?

Assuming, of course, we've accepted the underlying premise that there's a dollar limit beyond which we find human suffering and death negotiable.

Well, there is, and there always has been.

The usual example is we could save lives by lowering the speed limit, but we want to go faster, so we put up with the deaths.

And it's not as simple as dollars versus death. It's distribution of goods. Our food distribution network is straining in places right now. Certain products cannot be found. Then there's the social factors. I like being with my friends. More than that, we are social animals. We need the company of other people. Online chats are a poor substitute. And, in the dollars versus death calculation, it's not like the economic suffering is uniform. Those of us who can keep jobs under these conditions have a means of support. Those who can't, are completely cut off. It's all very well for me, who is working at home, to say that the sacrifice is worth it. I'm not really sacrificing much economically, yet.

Sooner or later, we will have to get back to normal life, or closer to normal, and since the virus isn't going to miraculously disappear, that means accepting a certain level of death and suffering in order to avoid a different sort of suffering.

I have no idea where that balance ought to be struck.

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

"will have been" I just love the Future perfect use here. As long as you are going there, why not future perfect continuous? This way you can prematurely boast you will have been always right continuously for the past and well into the future!???

It's been about 40 years since I was always right. Nice to see others managed to stay always right for much longer.

I'm most certainly not always right, not sure where you got the idea I was claiming that.. I would say I'm often wrong about things.

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

And once again I'm very glad that it's Cuomo and de Blasio in charge (not you).

Second guessing (Monday morning quarterbacking) decisions made by managers (etc) in an emergency has got to be one of the easiest things for armchair critics. Even for all the information contained in Cuomo's daily TV briefings, for example.

Your comprehension isn't good. Can you please quote where I said anywhere that they shouldn't have set them up? My issue was using the fact that they were set up as proof of anything other than that people believed they would be needed.I've said that numerous times now. I don't care if they set them up and not need them. Where was I "second guessing" anyone's decision?

 

[Doghouse Reilly]

Boris Johnson has been discharged from the hospital.

 

[pipelineaudio]

After decades of hearing about the relatively great Cuban medical system, To learn that there is homeopathy mixed in with regular health care is disappointing. Doubly so in a time of pandemic.

Consider the sources of those magical, wonderful, of so much better than murica claims anyway.

The good and true part of it is that the field doctors TRY and do at least see people a lot more than you'd think. Whether they have training or actual medicine for them is another thing, but the heart and will is there

 

[TellyKNeasuss]

A NY Times article states that for the period March 5 to April 4, 5330 more people died in New York than would have had the fatality rate followed the long-term average. Only 3350 of these deaths were listed as due to COVID-19. So it's likely that the official COVID-19 death count is too low.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...w-york-city.html?referringSource=articleShare