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Merged 2014 Hugo awards.

zooterkin said:
The story is showing in my Facebook feed. :)

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/04/13/1376743/-Freeping-the-Hugo-Awards#
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Clearly written by a moron. She responds to this claim:

In the last decade we’ve seen Hugo voting skew more and more toward literary (as opposed to entertainment) works. Some of these literary pieces barely have any science fictional or fantastic content in them. Likewise, we’ve seen the Hugo voting skew ideological, as Worldcon and fandom alike have tended to use the Hugos as an affirmative action award: giving Hugos because a writer or artist is (insert underrepresented minority or victim group here) or because a given work features (insert underrepresented minority or victim group here) characters.
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With this bit of buffoonery:

So, if the ideology argument doesn't convince you, the literary one should, because really, who would ever want science fiction to be confused with actual literature?
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Is she really that dense, or is she just playing a dimwit for the audience at Kos? The criticism of recent award-winners as excessively literary is not complaining that they are too well-written. Literary writing is where the plot and characterization are secondary or even tertiary; the emphasis is on style. It's the kind of writing that gets published in the New Yorker. Literary writing is the antithesis of genre writing, which (last I checked) is what science fiction falls under.
 
That made me think a bit. Sometimes stuff that is thought of as "great literature" just does not appeal to me all that much, whereas a good adventure story or something like that does. I say "sometimes" but this almost always turns out to be the case. Perhaps my tastes just are not "highbrow" enough.
 
Brainster said:
Is she really that dense, or is she just playing a dimwit for the audience at Kos? The criticism of recent award-winners as excessively literary is not complaining that they are too well-written. Literary writing is where the plot and characterization are secondary or even tertiary; the emphasis is on style. It's the kind of writing that gets published in the New Yorker. Literary writing is the antithesis of genre writing, which (last I checked) is what science fiction falls under.
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Yes no, maybe not really. Science fiction was definitely in the genre camp till the 1960s. Fairly quickly a movement started led largely by Michael Moorecock and his magazine New Worlds which started to steer the genre into more style drive format. At the time this created quite the schism, which happily was largely healed by the mid 70s. But even today there can be marked differences in the various styles or lack of style science fiction authors exploit to tell their stories.
 
Puppycow said:
That made me think a bit. Sometimes stuff that is thought of as "great literature" just does not appeal to me all that much, whereas a good adventure story or something like that does. I say "sometimes" but this almost always turns out to be the case. Perhaps my tastes just are not "highbrow" enough.
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I am very much the same when reading science fiction. Give me an interesting universe and an intriguing plot and I am in for the long haul. I really don't give a crap for the subtle exposition for exploring the post modernist movement on the evolution of the coke can
 
Puppycow said:
That made me think a bit. Sometimes stuff that is thought of as "great literature" just does not appeal to me all that much, whereas a good adventure story or something like that does. I say "sometimes" but this almost always turns out to be the case. Perhaps my tastes just are not "highbrow" enough.
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But what is "highbrow"? Especially in a field so hugely wide as science fiction. Does, for example, Philip Roth writing an alternate history novel make it superior to one by Harry Turtledove?

But dismissing science fiction as "genre writing" is just silly.
 
Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon I would call literary -- he has a very clever prose style and more than a few clever phrases. Whether it counts as science fiction I don't know. It's a fictional tale of an autistic genius who assists Alan Turing during WWII.
 
Beerina said:
Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon I would call literary -- he has a very clever prose style and more than a few clever phrases. Whether it counts as science fiction I don't know. It's a fictional tale of an autistic genius who assists Alan Turing during WWII.
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Exactly. SF is a little more complicated than does it have "a spaceship on the cover" as Torgersen ranted about.
 
I've just finished reading The Windup Girl by Paolo Bacigalupi and thought it was excellent.

It was the most fun science fiction book that I have read since Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner.

As it won the Hugo Award, I thought I would stick this here rather than start a new thread, and I decided today to order The City & The City by China Mieville.

Are these books considered "affirmative action" choices? I find it hard to believe that Windup Girl cannot win on its own merits, although I admit I don't read a lot of fiction these days.

A friend of mine recommended Octavia Butler, also a winner.

Anyone else have any good recommendations of good sci-fi recently? (My own preferences are towards "hard" SF - strictly no magic!)
 
catsmate1 said:
But what is "highbrow"? Especially in a field so hugely wide as science fiction. Does, for example, Philip Roth writing an alternate history novel make it superior to one by Harry Turtledove?

But dismissing science fiction as "genre writing" is just silly.
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I wasn't dismissing it by any means. I love genre writing and prefer it greatly to literary writing which bores me to tears. That is not to say that some genre writing can't have solid literary chops--see Raymond Chandler's take on the hard-boiled detective genre.

But good and great SF requires plot and characterization.
 
zooterkin said:
While I consider myself a fan of science fiction, I realised how out of touch I was the other week when I attended an SF Con, and didn't recognise any of the authors who were signing books. (The only name I recognised was Ian Watson, when he came over to look at my pizza.)

I don't recognise any of the winners above either, apart from the film and the TV show. :(
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Pretty much the same at Oasis this year - two I know because I actually know and occasionally communicate with them. Mostly not.
 
angrysoba said:
I've just finished reading The Windup Girl by Paolo Bacigalupi and thought it was excellent.

It was the most fun science fiction book that I have read since Stand on Zanzibar by John Brunner.

As it won the Hugo Award, I thought I would stick this here rather than start a new thread, and I decided today to order The City & The City by China Mieville.

Are these books considered "affirmative action" choices? I find it hard to believe that Windup Girl cannot win on its own merits, although I admit I don't read a lot of fiction these days.

A friend of mine recommended Octavia Butler, also a winner.

Anyone else have any good recommendations of good sci-fi recently? (My own preferences are towards "hard" SF - strictly no magic!)
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Octavia Butler, definitely, especially Lilith's Brood. I also loved Kindred but it's maybe not so much in the sci-fi genre.

Dan Simmon's Hyperion series, great sci-fi.

The Fifth Wave by Rick Yancey though I was less impressed by the sequel.
 
Brainster said:
Clearly written by a moron. She responds to this claim: ...

With this bit of buffoonery:
So, if the ideology argument doesn't convince you, the literary one should, because really, who would ever want science fiction to be confused with actual literature?
Click to expand...

Is she really that dense, or is she just playing a dimwit for the audience at Kos? The criticism of recent award-winners as excessively literary is not complaining that they are too well-written. Literary writing is where the plot and characterization are secondary or even tertiary; the emphasis is on style. It's the kind of writing that gets published in the New Yorker. Literary writing is the antithesis of genre writing, which (last I checked) is what science fiction falls under.
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:confused:

I think you should have finished reading the paragraph you quoted:
So, if the ideology argument doesn't convince you, the literary one should, because really, who would ever want science fiction to be confused with actual literature? Clearly, science fiction and fantasy should be about shallow, white males doing acts of fantastic content that have absolutely no meaning other than the joy of shooting neat weapons systems at the bad guys, who are equally shallow but do not have to be white males.
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It was sarcasm. Did you miss that or am I misreading your complaint?
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Octavia Butler, definitely, especially Lilith's Brood. I also loved Kindred but it's maybe not so much in the sci-fi genre.

Dan Simmon's Hyperion series, great sci-fi.

The Fifth Wave by Rick Yancey though I was less impressed by the sequel.
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Great! Thanks for the recommendations. I'll keep my eyes out for those books.
 
A couple of changed to the ballot due to authors repudiating connection to the puppies.

Marko Kloos:
I have officially withdrawn my acceptance of the Best Novel nomination for “Lines of Departure” at this year’s Hugo Awards.
t has come to my attention that “Lines of Departure” was one of the nomination suggestions in Vox Day’s “Rabid Puppies” campaign.
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He was particularly scathing about VD.

Annie Bellett:
I have withdrawn my story “Goodnight Stars” from consideration in this year’s Hugo Awards.
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This person or group has so little respect for the Hugo Awards that they're willing to dismiss several years' worth of winning writers as undeserving but having only gotten the award by dint of being a minority or belonging to a perceived victim demographic. If they demonstrate so little respect for the award, why on Earth should I lend any weight to their opinion of what kinds of people should win in the future?
 
Checkmite said:
This person or group has so little respect for the Hugo Awards that they're willing to dismiss several years' worth of winning writers as undeserving but having only gotten the award by dint of being a minority or belonging to a perceived victim demographic. If they demonstrate so little respect for the award, why on Earth should I lend any weight to their opinion of what kinds of people should win in the future?
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Which begs the question if they are so dissatisfied with the Hugo's, why not just start their own award process
 
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