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Merged 2014 Hugo awards.

luchog said:
Unless you consider the Gor series to be classic; cause it sounds like that's where they get their particular worldview from.
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I haven't read any of the Gor books, but I guess you're referring to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gor#Criticism

Yes, SFF has historically covered a lot of ground -- even questionable ground. It's not as if the Rabid Puppies can claim the high ground by standing up for historical paucities of taste and sensibility.
 
luchog said:
Unless you consider the Gor series to be classic; cause it sounds like that's where they get their particular worldview from.
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eerok said:
I haven't read any of the Gor books, but I guess you're referring to this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gor#Criticism

Yes, SFF has historically covered a lot of ground -- even questionable ground. It's not as if the Rabid Puppies can claim the high ground by standing up for historical paucities of taste and sensibility.
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Frankly the Gor series is crap both from the perspectives of good literature and good erotica; reminiscent of bad Marty Sue fan-fic.
 
catsmate said:
Frankly the Gor series is crap both from the perspectives of good literature and good erotica; reminiscent of bad Marty Sue fan-fic.
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The Gor books were pretty low on my reading list, anyway, but I can bump them down further, since they sound kinda repulsive. Perhaps they can sit with Goodkind's books in the "life is too short to waste time reading this crap" pile.
 
eerok said:
The Gor books were pretty low on my reading list, anyway, but I can bump them down further, since they sound kinda repulsive. Perhaps they can sit with Goodkind's books in the "life is too short to waste time reading this crap" pile.
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I'd put them even lower than Goodkind, which I've made the mistake of reading. Goodkind is just an Ayn Rand fanboy with more ambition than ability. John Norman's Gor is an epic of self-importance and brutal misogyny built on a solid Mary Sue/Marty Stu foundation.
 
eerok said:
The Gor books were pretty low on my reading list, anyway, but I can bump them down further, since they sound kinda repulsive. Perhaps they can sit with Goodkind's books in the "life is too short to waste time reading this crap" pile.
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A good idea.

luchog said:
I'd put them even lower than Goodkind, which I've made the mistake of reading. Goodkind is just an Ayn Rand fanboy with more ambition than ability. John Norman's Gor is an epic of self-importance and brutal misogyny built on a solid Mary Sue/Marty Stu foundation.
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This.
 
The blowback from the unpersoning of Barbara Barrett (guilty of being a "SJW" and thus part of their supposed " and their travelling freakshow of interlocking fetishes and predatory abuses") has hit; Al Harron, another contributor to the (defunct) The Cimmerian blog has demanded that he be subjected to the same fate.

Al Harron said:
Barbara Barrett is a friend, a colleague, and an erudite scholar. I wrote to Leo stating, in no uncertain terms, that if anyone on The Cimmerian was to be expelled, their prose struck, their faces scored out, their very names unheard and unspoken, for the “crime” of criticism, then they must do exactly the same to me.
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catsmate said:
In further Hugo/Worldcon news some pups are spreading rumours about what went on during the WSFS Business Meeting. That's despite the eleven hours of video of everything that was said........
:rolleyes:
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And here are the Business Meeting minutes for perusal.
 
A bit OT but there are three collections, available as ebooks, for the 'Retro-Hugos'.

Volume 1.
“The Ray that Failed” by Albert Bernstein (as Donald Bern) in Fantastic Adventures, August 1940.
“Queen of the Metal Men” by Robert Bloch in Fantastic Adventures, April 1940.
“The Syphonic Abduction” by Hannes Bok in Futuria Fantasia, Winter 1940.
“The Voice of Scariliop” by Hannes Bok (as H. V. B.) in Futuria Fantasia, Winter 1940.
“Lancelot Biggs Cooks a Pirate” by Nelson S. Bond in Fantastic Adventures, February 1940.
“The Stellar Legion” by Leigh Bracket in Planet Stories, Winter 1940.
“The Flight of the Good Ship Clarissa” by Ray Bradbury in Futuria Fantasia, Spring 1940.
“The Piper” by Ray Bradbury (as Ron Reynolds) in Futuria Fantasia, Spring 1940.
“The Man Who Killed the World” by Ray Cummings (as Ray King) in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“Sabotage on Mars” by Maurice Duclos in Fantastic Adventures, June 1940.
“Glamour Girl-2040” by Oscar J. Friend in Startling Stories, May 1940.
“HEIL!” by Robert Heinlein (as Lyle Monroe) in Futuria Fantasia, Spring 1940.
“Tickets to Paradise” by D. L. James in Comet, December 1940.
“The Itching Hour” by Damon Knight in Futuria Fantasia, Spring 1940.
“50 Miles Down” by Henry Kuttner (as Peter Horn) in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
“The Shining Man” by Henry Kuttner (as Noel Gardner) in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
“Hell in Eden” by Richard O. Lewis in Fantastic Adventures, January 1940.
“Inflexible Logic” by Russell Maloney in The New Yorker, February 1940.
“Song in a Minor Key” by C. L. Moore in Scienti-Snaps, February 1940.
“Blue Tropics” by James Norman in Fantastic Adventures, April 1940.
“The Strange Voyage of Hector Squinch” by David Wright O’Brien in Fantastic Adventures, August 1940.
“The Intruder” by Emil Petaja in Futuria Fantasia, Winter 1940.
“Martian Terror” by Ed Earl Repp in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“The Tantalus Death” by Ross Rocklynne in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“The Girl in the Whirlpool” by Don Wilcox in Fantastic Adventures, August 1940.
“The Golden Princess” by Robert Moore Williams in Fantastic Adventures, August 1940.
“Captives of the Void” by R. R. Winterbotham in Fantastic Adventures, January 1940.

Volume 2.
“The Oversight” by Miles J. Breuer in Comet, December 1940.
“Land of Wooden Men” by John Broome in Fantastic Adventures, April 1940.
“In the Earth’s Shadow” by John L. Chapman in Comet, December 1940.
“The Girl from Infinite Smallness” by Ray Cummings in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“Heart of Atlantan” by Nictzin Dyalhis in Weird Tales, September 1940.
“Mind Over Matter” by Oscar J. Friend in Startling Stories, January 1940.
“Eyes That Watch” by Raymond Z. Gallun in Comet, December 1940.
“The Wizard of Baseball” by Milton Kaletsky in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
“The Ultimate Image” by P. Schuyler Miller in Comet, December 1940.
“Oscar, Detective of Mars” by James Norman in Fantastic Adventures, October 1940.
“The Man the World Forgot” by David Wright O’Brien (as John York Cabot) in Fantastic Adventures, April 1940.
“The Space Flame” by Alexander M. Phillips in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“Norris Tapley’s Sixth Sense” by Ed Earl Repp in Fantastic Adventures, April 1940.
“Worlds at War” by Ed Earl Repp in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
“Goddess of the Moon” by John Murray Reynolds in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“The Scientific Miler of Bowler U.” by Ivan Sandrof in Fantastic Adventures, October 1940.
“Revolt on the Earth-star” by Carl Selwyn in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“The Lodestone Core” by D. D. Sharp in Astonishing Stories, August 1940.
“New York Fights the Termanites” by Bertrand L. Shurtleff in Fantastic Adventures, February 1940.
“Bratton’s Idea” by Manly Wade Wellman in Comet, December 1940.
“Let War Gods Clash!” by Don Wilcox in Fantastic Adventures, February 1940.
“The Whispering Gorilla” by Don Wilcox in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
“Emergency Landing” by Ralph Williams in Astounding Science Fiction, July 1940.
“Lord of the Silent Death” by Robert Moore Williams in Comet, December 1940.
“Equation for Time” by R. R. Winterbotham in Comet, December 1940.

Volume 3.
Ray Cummings “Arton’s Metal” in Super Science Stories, May 1940.
Ray Cummings & Gabrielle Cummings (as Gabriel Wilson) “Corpses from Canvas” in Horror Stories, May 1940.
Ray Cummings “The Girl from Infinite Smallness” in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
Ray Cummings “Ice over America” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, August 1940.
Ray Cummings (as Ray King) “The Man Who Killed the World” in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
Ray Cummings “Perfume of Dark Desire” by in Horror Stories, May 1940.
Ray Cummings “Personality Plus” in Astonishing Stories, October 1940.
Ray Cummings “Phantom of the Seven Stars” in Planet Stories, Winter 1940.
Ray Cummings “Priestess of the Moon” in Amazing Stories, December 1940.
Ray Cummings “Revolt in the Ice” Empire in Planet Stories, Fall 1940.
Ray Cummings “Space-Liner X87” in Planet Stories, Summer 1940.
Ray Cummings “The Thought-Woman” in Super Science Stories, July 1940.
Ray Cummings “The Vanishing Men” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, September 1940.
Ray Cummings “When the Werewolf Howls” in Horror Stories, May 1940.
Ray Cummings “World Upside Down in Thrilling Wonder Stories, December 1940.
Henry Kuttner (as Peter Horn) “50 Miles Down” in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
Henry Kuttner (as Kelvin Kent) “Beauty and the Beast” by Thrilling Wonder Stories, April 1940.
Henry Kuttner “A Comedy of Eras” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, September 1940.
Henry Kuttner “Dr. Cyclops” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, June 1940.
Henry Kuttner “The Elixir of Invisibility” in Fantastic Adventures, October 1940.
Henry Kuttner (as Paul Edmonds) “Improbability” in Astonishing Stories, June 1940.
Henry Kuttner (as Paul Edmonds) “The Lifestone” in Astonishing Stories, February 1940.
Henry Kuttner (as by Kelvin Kent) “Man About Time” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, October 1940.
Henry Kuttner “No Man’s World” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, August 1940.
Henry Kuttner “Pegasus” in Famous Fantastic Mysteries, May-June 1940.
Henry Kuttner “Reverse Atom” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, November 1940.
Henry Kuttner “The Shining Man” (as Noel Gardner) in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
Henry Kuttner “Threshold” in Unknown, December 1940.
Henry Kuttner “The Uncanny Power of Edwin Cobalt” (as Noel Gardner) in Fantastic Adventures, October 1940.
Henry Kuttner “World without Air” in Fantastic Adventures, August 1940.
 
catsmate said:
A bit OT but there are three collections, available as ebooks, for the 'Retro-Hugos'.

Volume 1.
“The Ray that Failed” by Albert Bernstein (as Donald Bern) in Fantastic Adventures, August 1940.
“Queen of the Metal Men” by Robert Bloch in Fantastic Adventures, April 1940.
“The Syphonic Abduction” by Hannes Bok in Futuria Fantasia, Winter 1940.
“The Voice of Scariliop” by Hannes Bok (as H. V. B.) in Futuria Fantasia, Winter 1940.
“Lancelot Biggs Cooks a Pirate” by Nelson S. Bond in Fantastic Adventures, February 1940.
“The Stellar Legion” by Leigh Bracket in Planet Stories, Winter 1940.
“The Flight of the Good Ship Clarissa” by Ray Bradbury in Futuria Fantasia, Spring 1940.
“The Piper” by Ray Bradbury (as Ron Reynolds) in Futuria Fantasia, Spring 1940.
“The Man Who Killed the World” by Ray Cummings (as Ray King) in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“Sabotage on Mars” by Maurice Duclos in Fantastic Adventures, June 1940.
“Glamour Girl-2040” by Oscar J. Friend in Startling Stories, May 1940.
“HEIL!” by Robert Heinlein (as Lyle Monroe) in Futuria Fantasia, Spring 1940.
“Tickets to Paradise” by D. L. James in Comet, December 1940.
“The Itching Hour” by Damon Knight in Futuria Fantasia, Spring 1940.
“50 Miles Down” by Henry Kuttner (as Peter Horn) in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
“The Shining Man” by Henry Kuttner (as Noel Gardner) in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
“Hell in Eden” by Richard O. Lewis in Fantastic Adventures, January 1940.
“Inflexible Logic” by Russell Maloney in The New Yorker, February 1940.
“Song in a Minor Key” by C. L. Moore in Scienti-Snaps, February 1940.
“Blue Tropics” by James Norman in Fantastic Adventures, April 1940.
“The Strange Voyage of Hector Squinch” by David Wright O’Brien in Fantastic Adventures, August 1940.
“The Intruder” by Emil Petaja in Futuria Fantasia, Winter 1940.
“Martian Terror” by Ed Earl Repp in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“The Tantalus Death” by Ross Rocklynne in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“The Girl in the Whirlpool” by Don Wilcox in Fantastic Adventures, August 1940.
“The Golden Princess” by Robert Moore Williams in Fantastic Adventures, August 1940.
“Captives of the Void” by R. R. Winterbotham in Fantastic Adventures, January 1940.

Volume 2.
“The Oversight” by Miles J. Breuer in Comet, December 1940.
“Land of Wooden Men” by John Broome in Fantastic Adventures, April 1940.
“In the Earth’s Shadow” by John L. Chapman in Comet, December 1940.
“The Girl from Infinite Smallness” by Ray Cummings in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“Heart of Atlantan” by Nictzin Dyalhis in Weird Tales, September 1940.
“Mind Over Matter” by Oscar J. Friend in Startling Stories, January 1940.
“Eyes That Watch” by Raymond Z. Gallun in Comet, December 1940.
“The Wizard of Baseball” by Milton Kaletsky in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
“The Ultimate Image” by P. Schuyler Miller in Comet, December 1940.
“Oscar, Detective of Mars” by James Norman in Fantastic Adventures, October 1940.
“The Man the World Forgot” by David Wright O’Brien (as John York Cabot) in Fantastic Adventures, April 1940.
“The Space Flame” by Alexander M. Phillips in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“Norris Tapley’s Sixth Sense” by Ed Earl Repp in Fantastic Adventures, April 1940.
“Worlds at War” by Ed Earl Repp in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
“Goddess of the Moon” by John Murray Reynolds in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“The Scientific Miler of Bowler U.” by Ivan Sandrof in Fantastic Adventures, October 1940.
“Revolt on the Earth-star” by Carl Selwyn in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
“The Lodestone Core” by D. D. Sharp in Astonishing Stories, August 1940.
“New York Fights the Termanites” by Bertrand L. Shurtleff in Fantastic Adventures, February 1940.
“Bratton’s Idea” by Manly Wade Wellman in Comet, December 1940.
“Let War Gods Clash!” by Don Wilcox in Fantastic Adventures, February 1940.
“The Whispering Gorilla” by Don Wilcox in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
“Emergency Landing” by Ralph Williams in Astounding Science Fiction, July 1940.
“Lord of the Silent Death” by Robert Moore Williams in Comet, December 1940.
“Equation for Time” by R. R. Winterbotham in Comet, December 1940.

Volume 3.
Ray Cummings “Arton’s Metal” in Super Science Stories, May 1940.
Ray Cummings & Gabrielle Cummings (as Gabriel Wilson) “Corpses from Canvas” in Horror Stories, May 1940.
Ray Cummings “The Girl from Infinite Smallness” in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
Ray Cummings “Ice over America” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, August 1940.
Ray Cummings (as Ray King) “The Man Who Killed the World” in Planet Stories, Spring 1940.
Ray Cummings “Perfume of Dark Desire” by in Horror Stories, May 1940.
Ray Cummings “Personality Plus” in Astonishing Stories, October 1940.
Ray Cummings “Phantom of the Seven Stars” in Planet Stories, Winter 1940.
Ray Cummings “Priestess of the Moon” in Amazing Stories, December 1940.
Ray Cummings “Revolt in the Ice” Empire in Planet Stories, Fall 1940.
Ray Cummings “Space-Liner X87” in Planet Stories, Summer 1940.
Ray Cummings “The Thought-Woman” in Super Science Stories, July 1940.
Ray Cummings “The Vanishing Men” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, September 1940.
Ray Cummings “When the Werewolf Howls” in Horror Stories, May 1940.
Ray Cummings “World Upside Down in Thrilling Wonder Stories, December 1940.
Henry Kuttner (as Peter Horn) “50 Miles Down” in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
Henry Kuttner (as Kelvin Kent) “Beauty and the Beast” by Thrilling Wonder Stories, April 1940.
Henry Kuttner “A Comedy of Eras” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, September 1940.
Henry Kuttner “Dr. Cyclops” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, June 1940.
Henry Kuttner “The Elixir of Invisibility” in Fantastic Adventures, October 1940.
Henry Kuttner (as Paul Edmonds) “Improbability” in Astonishing Stories, June 1940.
Henry Kuttner (as Paul Edmonds) “The Lifestone” in Astonishing Stories, February 1940.
Henry Kuttner (as by Kelvin Kent) “Man About Time” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, October 1940.
Henry Kuttner “No Man’s World” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, August 1940.
Henry Kuttner “Pegasus” in Famous Fantastic Mysteries, May-June 1940.
Henry Kuttner “Reverse Atom” in Thrilling Wonder Stories, November 1940.
Henry Kuttner “The Shining Man” (as Noel Gardner) in Fantastic Adventures, May 1940.
Henry Kuttner “Threshold” in Unknown, December 1940.
Henry Kuttner “The Uncanny Power of Edwin Cobalt” (as Noel Gardner) in Fantastic Adventures, October 1940.
Henry Kuttner “World without Air” in Fantastic Adventures, August 1940.
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Wow,they just don;t have titles like that anymore....

But I doubt these would be serious contenders for the Retro Hugos;sound more like a selection of pulp science fiction stories that have fallen into the public domian.
 
Here's a radical proposal: how about the Hugo Awards go to whichever author's work is judged to be the best, period? Why should the genitalia the author happens to possess or how much melanin the author has in their skin or the particular political ideology that infuses the author's story have any bearing on the suitability for earning the award?

How about awarding the award based on merit and merit alone?
 
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Corsair 115 said:
How about awarding the award based on merit and merit alone?
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Art follows trends, and it always has. However, if you're suggesting that the Hugos currently promote SJW crap, and that there's much better stuff out there, then people will find the better stuff, and the Hugos will become irrelevant. I think that quality always prevails; all it takes is patience.

I'm interested in hearing anything you'd like to propose to change the way the Hugos work, though. The Puppy gambit was obviously a non-starter, and I hardly think a quota system for bigots and fools is likely to fly. Maybe if the Puppies wrote better stuff they wouldn't need to act out so pathetically. I'm most certainly not friendly to SJW excesses, but the Puppies were no improvement at all.

Keep in mind that those of us who care about literature don't limit ourselves to the opinions of awards committees. I look at the Hugos, the Booker, the Nobel, etc., just because I'm always looking for something interesting. If I don't find what I want in their lists, I move on and look other places.
 
dudalb said:
Wow,they just don;t have titles like that anymore....

But I doubt these would be serious contenders for the Retro Hugos;sound more like a selection of pulp science fiction stories that have fallen into the public domian.
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Well yes, thanks to the screwed up copyright system a lot of material is in limbo but all those stories are PD.
 
Corsair 115 said:
Here's a radical proposal: how about the Hugo Awards go to whichever author's work is judged to be the best, period? Why should the genitalia the author happens to possess or how much melanin the author has in their skin or the particular political ideology that infuses the author's story have any bearing on the suitability for earning the award?

How about awarding the award based on merit and merit alone?
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You mean like happened this year? When a lot of dreck that was nominated by a small group pushing a political agenda was rightly dismissed...
 
Corsair 115 said:
Here's a radical proposal: how about the Hugo Awards go to whichever author's work is judged to be the best, period? Why should the genitalia the author happens to possess or how much melanin the author has in their skin or the particular political ideology that infuses the author's story have any bearing on the suitability for earning the award?

How about awarding the award based on merit and merit alone?
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Tell that to your rabid puppy friends. You know, the ones making a cheater list where, apart from a couple of token exceptions to show that "we're not racist and sexist, really!", it was all about getting more white males in because they were white males?
 
Corsair 115 said:
Here's a radical proposal: how about the Hugo Awards go to whichever author's work is judged to be the best, period? Why should the genitalia the author happens to possess or how much melanin the author has in their skin or the particular political ideology that infuses the author's story have any bearing on the suitability for earning the award?
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Who thinks the author's genitals/melanin should have bearing and where have they said so? Genuine question. As for political ideology infused into the story, I'd say it's not entirely invalid to consider that to have some bearing when it comes to judging the quality of the work.


eerok said:
Art follows trends, and it always has. However, if you're suggesting that the Hugos currently promote SJW crap, and that there's much better stuff out there, then people will find the better stuff, and the Hugos will become irrelevant. I think that quality always prevails; all it takes is patience.
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Doesn't seem to be the case in the music industry.
 
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