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2012 Debates

Does the punk think he's at Chumsley Prep and daddy can buy him out of trouble if he rushes the POTUS?

The great thing is that Obama never called daddy a liar, but so glad you brought it up, Tagg. Maybe sonny boy is projecting a bit based on hearing dad and his coach, Pinocchio, warming up for the debates.
 
I'm still at a loss as to why it matters at all whether Obama thought the Benghazi thing was a terrorist attack or not. If he came out that afternoon and declared the event the unfortunate result of a circus clown training accident what does it really matter? No one could have known what had really happened at that point. I'm betting down at the CIA they were throwing darts at a board as they usually do.

Yep, definitely exploding floating toasters.

Considering it was the front line of a civil war I would have been surprised if they knew anything about what happened there with certainty for weeks. Anything any President would have said that soon after the event would have just been a guess.
 
You mean like the transcript of the rose garden speech, the video, the presidents own words?

Got anything other than a blind hatred of the President?
This, for example:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...a4a26c6-1870-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_blog.html

More evidence of deception

And this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...109898e-1867-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_blog.html

Presidential debate: Libya questioner says Obama didn’t answer

Just the facts apparently is all I have. You can continue to pretend Obama is not a liar on the Benghazi incodent.
 
This, for example:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...a4a26c6-1870-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_blog.html



And this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...109898e-1867-11e2-a55c-39408fbe6a4b_blog.html



Just the facts apparently is all I have. You can continue to pretend Obama is not a liar on the Benghazi incodent.


Oh my bad I had know idea you were going to cite opinion pieces from the washington post! MERCY! I SURRENDER!:rolleyes:

I'll stick with the president's words and not the opinion of people who are overtly biased against the Lion of Abbottabad.
 
All I've ever been able to manage is a clipboard. A clipboard full of women. How pathetic that sounds now that I see there were binders. Sweet binders...out of my reach.
Speaking of people attacking syntax, while they pretend the word 'terrorist' in Obama's Rose Garden remarks meant "Benghazi was a terrorist attack.". :p
 
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Speaking of people attacking syntax, while they pretend the word 'terrorist' in Obama's Rose Garden remarks meant "Benghazi was a terrorist attack.". :p

No we don't. Everyone knows he was talking about the benghazi attack and then just decided to speak about terrorism as a separate and totally unrelated matter.

:boggled:
 
Oh my bad I had know idea you were going to cite opinion pieces from the washington post! MERCY! I SURRENDER!:rolleyes:

I'll stick with the president's words and not the opinion of people who are overtly biased against the Lion of Abbottabad.
That is, LaLaLa fingers in my ears I can't hear you. Your choice.
 
I'm still at a loss as to why it matters at all whether Obama thought the Benghazi thing was a terrorist attack or not.

It doesn't. That's nto the criticism (or shouldn't be).

Here's how it is described:

1. In Libya, a terror group plans a coordinated assault on the consulate in Benghazi because they perceive the security there to be weak. 9/11 is chosen as the date for symbolic reasons.
2. Independently, and later, imams in Cairo begin complaining about a YouTube video that insults Mohammed. People begin to organize protests. 9/11 is chosen as the date for the same symbolic reasons as the terrorists in Libya chose. But there is no evidence of cooperation between the two groups.
3. On 9/10, the American consulate in Cairo, fearing the Egyptian protests will become violent, issues a statement condemning the YouTube video and calling for calm.
4. On 9/11, the planned protests in Cairo go froward with vandalism and some violence. At the same time, in Libya, the assault kills four Americans, including the Ambassador.
5. Romney condemns the consulate's statement, claiming it shows how the Obama Administration tends to blame Americans for the actions of Islamic radicals, rather than placing the blame on the radicals.
6. The White House states that the Cairo consulate's statement was unauthorized (seen as a weak retraction) and condemns the radicals, the makers of the YouTube video, and also condemns Romney for politicizing the issue.
7. In the Rose Garden, Obama says the attacks in Benghazi were caused by terrorists (true) and made an oblique reference to the YouTube video. (False.) (you can see the Rose Garden remarks here.*)
8. Subsequently, the US government asks YouTube to remove the video. YouTube refuses.

The issue, in a nutshell, is the GOP claim that the Administration has a habit of trying to associate a portion of the responsibility for terror attacks to America's own behavior. If Obama truly had no information, then he simply assumed that the attacks were in response to the video, and that supports the Republican argument that Obama has a "Blame America" assumption. If he really didn't know, then he should not have mentioned the video.

Whether you think this argument has any weight probably depends on your predisposition. If you like Obama, you're probably inclined to think he had bad information, or that his assumption that the video was a motivation was reasonable. If you don't like Obama, you're probably inclined to think that the Consulate statement, the Rose Garden statement, and the subsequent request to YouTube to remove the video all evidence an attitude by the Obama Administration that America is partially to blame for Islamic terror, and that if we just didn't offend the radicals they'd leave us alone. If you're undecided, you probably think this is a really stupid nit-picky issue.

For me, the more pressing issue is Embassy security. But I'm pretty sure this issue is going to equally besmirch both the Obama Administration who ignored State Department calls for more security and the budget-hawk Republicans in Congress (like Ryan) who tried to cut funding for Embassy security. So the parties merely dance around that issue.

* In his Rose Garden remarks, he doesn't actually call the attacks a terror act, though it is heavily implied. Nor does he directly blame the YouTube video. Here are the salient excerpts:
Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. But there is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None. The world must stand together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts.
* * *​
No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
 
Here are the remark in total from the rose garden.

Rose Garden

10:43 A.M. EDT

THE PRESIDENT: Good morning. Every day, all across the world, American diplomats and civilians work tirelessly to advance the interests and values of our nation. Often, they are away from their families. Sometimes, they brave great danger.

Yesterday, four of these extraordinary Americans were killed in an attack on our diplomatic post in Benghazi. Among those killed was our Ambassador, Chris Stevens, as well as Foreign Service Officer Sean Smith. We are still notifying the families of the others who were killed. And today, the American people stand united in holding the families of the four Americans in our thoughts and in our prayers.

The United States condemns in the strongest terms this outrageous and shocking attack. We're working with the government of Libya to secure our diplomats. I've also directed my administration to increase our security at diplomatic posts around the world. And make no mistake, we will work with the Libyan government to bring to justice the killers who attacked our people.

Since our founding, the United States has been a nation that respects all faiths. We reject all efforts to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. But there is absolutely no justification to this type of senseless violence. None. The world must stand together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts.

Already, many Libyans have joined us in doing so, and this attack will not break the bonds between the United States and Libya. Libyan security personnel fought back against the attackers alongside Americans. Libyans helped some of our diplomats find safety, and they carried Ambassador Stevens’s body to the hospital, where we tragically learned that he had died.

It's especially tragic that Chris Stevens died in Benghazi because it is a city that he helped to save. At the height of the Libyan revolution, Chris led our diplomatic post in Benghazi. With characteristic skill, courage, and resolve, he built partnerships with Libyan revolutionaries, and helped them as they planned to build a new Libya. When the Qaddafi regime came to an end, Chris was there to serve as our ambassador to the new Libya, and he worked tirelessly to support this young democracy, and I think both Secretary Clinton and I relied deeply on his knowledge of the situation on the ground there. He was a role model to all who worked with him and to the young diplomats who aspire to walk in his footsteps.

Along with his colleagues, Chris died in a country that is still striving to emerge from the recent experience of war. Today, the loss of these four Americans is fresh, but our memories of them linger on. I have no doubt that their legacy will live on through the work that they did far from our shores and in the hearts of those who love them back home.

Of course, yesterday was already a painful day for our nation as we marked the solemn memory of the 9/11 attacks. We mourned with the families who were lost on that day. I visited the graves of troops who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq and Afghanistan at the hallowed grounds of Arlington Cemetery, and had the opportunity to say thank you and visit some of our wounded warriors at Walter Reed. And then last night, we learned the news of this attack in Benghazi.

As Americans, let us never, ever forget that our freedom is only sustained because there are people who are willing to fight for it, to stand up for it, and in some cases, lay down their lives for it. Our country is only as strong as the character of our people and the service of those both civilian and military who represent us around the globe.

No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn four more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.

But we also know that the lives these Americans led stand in stark contrast to those of their attackers. These four Americans stood up for freedom and human dignity. They should give every American great pride in the country that they served, and the hope that our flag represents to people around the globe who also yearn to live in freedom and with dignity.

We grieve with their families, but let us carry on their memory, and let us continue their work of seeking a stronger America and a better world for all of our children.

Thank you. May God bless the memory of those we lost and may God bless the United States of America.

END
10:48 A.M. EDT
 
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That is, LaLaLa fingers in my ears I can't hear you. Your choice.
Now that the full Rose Garden transcript is on the page, I'd be fascinated to see how you would defend your earlier assertion that the President "was trying to link a number of incidents, for example Cairo plus other countries that had problems, with Benghazi."

Would you care to simply retract it instead?
 
Now that the full Rose Garden transcript is on the page, I'd be fascinated to see how you would defend your earlier assertion that the President "was trying to link a number of incidents, for example Cairo plus other countries that had problems, with Benghazi."

Would you care to simply retract it instead?
The biased, hyper-semantic argument you are responding to is an example of why one must understand Hymie the Robot in order to survive election season on a skeptical forum.
 
Now that the full Rose Garden transcript is on the page, I'd be fascinated to see how you would defend your earlier assertion that the President "was trying to link a number of incidents, for example Cairo plus other countries that had problems, with Benghazi."

Would you care to simply retract it instead?


I'll be betting against that happening.
 

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