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2012 Debates

PhreePhly said:
Wrong as usual. Tricky answered this earlier in this post http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8697495&postcount=1427

The oil companies have been playing games with leases, doing the bare minimum to keep them, but not drilling until the price of oil makes it worth it. This administration has decided to stop that game and basically told them to start drilling or lose the lease. The best part is that the Fed can then lease the land out to another company (at a higher rate, bringing more revenue) with conditions that include requiring drilling.
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Perhaps Bill believes there should be a government oil company tasked with drilling for oil on Federal lands?
 
Biscuit said:
His only weakness was on the Lybia attack. Last night he put that to bed with out a bed time story.
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I don't think his only weakness is on Lybia. I think he is vulnerable on Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Israel, Egypt, and Palestine, to name a few. I don't think any of those are killer issues, and I think Biden showed how you can respond to those issues effectively, but they are areas of vulnerability. Let's not get overconfident here.
 
marksman said:
As I said, it's a matter of perception. Here's the exchange from the ABC News Transcript...


First off, the statement "I don't look at my pension" came off as otu of touch. Who doesn't look at his pension? That's his retirement. I am telling you that I don't care how small your pension is, you look at it, because that's your retirmeent. If you don't look at it, it's because you're so rich you don't worry about it. So he stumbled off the bat.

Then he corrected himself with "It's not as big as yours so it doesn't take as long."

And that line is basically making run of Romney for being rich. It's not even saying he's out of touch for being rich, or anything else. Just that Romney is very wealthy. I think he was going for a "Romney doesn't understand folks like you or me -- I'm like you, audience, I have a small pension that doesn't take as long to review as Romney's" but to me it just came off as a "Heh. He's rich!"

I didn't think it was Obama's best moment, but it did get one of the biggest audience reactions.
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Thanks. I just don't see it. Not at all. I think you are reading something (actually I think you are reading an awful lot) into it that just isn't there. I can usually at least see other people's perception but on this one I just don't. Sorry.
 
Bill Thompson said:
I like how Romney tells the truth about oil drilling on federal land -- that anyone can verify as being true -- and our president repeatedly calls Romney a liar. I guess that is what you would call "winning".
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Actually no, Romney is a liar.

In the last four years, you cut permits and licenses on federal land and federal waters in half.
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False. Permits were cut but it wasn't because the administration is against it per se. There was the the worst oil spill in history that occurred on federal land. It was prudent to halt permits in the wake of that.

Also they were not cut in half. At the very least Mitt is rounding up.

Politifact.com noted the following about drilling on federal lands: "From 2004-08, well into Bush’s tenure, oil production on federal lands and waters fell in four of five years, for a net decrease of 16.8%. From 2009-11, the Obama years, oil production rose two of three years, for a net increase of 10.6%."
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Mitt equating more permits with more drilling is just ignorant.

linky
 
marksman said:
As I said, it's a matter of perception. Here's the exchange from the ABC News Transcript...


First off, the statement "I don't look at my pension" came off as out of touch. Who doesn't look at his pension? That's his retirement. I am telling you that I don't care how small your pension is, you look at it, because that's your retirement. If you don't look at it, it's because you're so rich you don't worry about it. So he stumbled off the bat.

Then he went for the laugh with "It's not as big as yours so it doesn't take as long." And then he tried to cover-up the first sentence with "I don't check it that often," which, imo, weakened the joke.

And the joke is basically making run of Romney for being rich. It's not even saying he's out of touch for being rich, or anything else. Just that Romney is very wealthy. I think he was going for a "Romney doesn't understand folks like you or me -- I'm like you, audience, I have a small pension that doesn't take as long to review as Romney's" but to me it just came off as a "Heh. He's rich!" And Romney's response, while not funny, sort of hit Obama for not knowing about his own pension funds and the nature of his investments. It didn't get a laugh, but I think it did undermine Obama's attack on Romney's questionable investments.

I didn't think it was Obama's best moment, but it did get one of the biggest audience reactions.
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Obama missed a good opening there. If he'd said, "Well maybe if you'd show us your tax returns for the years before you started running for President, we could see how much you invested in China," I'm pretty sure the audience reaction would have been a lot more.
 
RandFan said:
I'm really curious, why? I don't get that. I don't see how it follows. For one thing, Obama ain't broke. No where near it.
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The reason why, IMO, is to energize a large portion of his base which are resentful of wealth. Agreed that Obama is not broke. Quite the opposite - he is very wealthy. As far as "main street" voters should be concerned he is as wealthy as Romney. The difference in wealth between the two candidates is hardly significant when compared to the difference between either candidate and the average main street voter.

Obama said several things last night to suggest he was not very wealthy. He knows a large portion of his base resents the wealthy - this is the reason they often refer to Romney as being "rich" in derogatory way. He is also fond of peaking about "millionaires", "billionaires", "fat cat bankers", "the more fortunate among us",etc.
 
Bill Thompson said:
I like how Obama tried to win the second debate by basically copying Romney's style and technique. I guess that is what you would call "being a leader".
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So when Romney copied Obama by moving much more to the center in the first debate....
 
MaverickPLM said:
Then in that case, Romney's refusal to adhere to the format of the debate was excused by the apparent bias of the moderator. Obama taking Romney to task over some of Romney's egregious lies and distortions was excused by the denigrating attacks employed by Obama against someone who just loves America for what America truly stands for. ;)
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Er, yes the moderator was obviously in the tank for Obama, who got 3 more minutes than Romney did, and who as moderator made every effort to stop Romney's discussions of Obama lies, but allowed O too continue over the time limit.

And too bad O was upset that people did and do notice he and his admin's lies regarding the Benghazi action caused by a bad utube video rather than admitting it to be an obvious terrorist attack. He was still saying this days later when on The View and also when addressing the UN.

The word 'terrorist' in his Oct 12 remarks was imo in no way obviously discussing Benghazi.
 
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Biscuit said:
Actually no, Romney is a liar.

False. Permits were cut but it wasn't because the administration is against it per se. There was the the worst oil spill in history that occurred on federal land. It was prudent to halt permits in the wake of that.

Also they were not cut in half. At the very least Mitt is rounding up.

Mitt equating more permits with more drilling is just ignorant.

linky
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Add that to his claim that he had a survey done to find more women to hire. Flagrant lies.
 
Olowkow said:
I'm waiting for Romney apologists to begin claiming that Obama's "no acts of terror" quote from the rose garden really meant that there were "no acts of terror.":D

Obama's factual superiority on several areas and Romney's being rattled gives Obama the win for me. Not huge, but a win. Once Romney is fact checked in his Gish gallops, it may be even more of an Obama victory. Romney's credibility for me is so low I can't really be very objective.
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Here's your fact check.

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles...sidential.Campaign.Fact.Check/?cid=hero_media

Who told more lies?
 
Tricky said:
Obama missed a good opening there. If he'd said, "Well maybe if you'd show us your tax returns for the years before you started running for President, we could see how much you invested in China," I'm pretty sure the audience reaction would have been a lot more.
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I don't know about that. That's a bit long for a one-liner, and it really would have seemed like an awkward response to "Have you reviewed your pension?" If he had just delivered the line int he form it should have been delivered, it would have gone over better.

ROMNEY: Have you reviewed your pension?
OBAMA: Of course I have. It didn't take long, since it's not as big as yours.

Even better if he could cite what proportion is in foreign companies.

ROMNEY: Have you reviewed your pension?
OBAMA: My government pension is doing a lot better than most folks out there. And it invests 80% in American companies. What's your pension got? 60%?

But, yeah. I think it was a prepared joke and he flubbed it and then tried to recover.

But as I said before it's not a big deal. I don't think it cost him anything in the debate, and the press seemed to like it well enough.
 
TheShadow said:
I'm sorry, but one particular "fact" that Romney keeps citing, is that gasoline prices have doubled under Obama's Presidency....

If your own memory doesnt serve well enough to answer this charge, there are numerous websites that track the average price of gasoline going back many years.

The price of gasoline during 2007 and 2008, went through the roof, including prices near or past where they are right now. The fact that they dropped back to more reasonable prices in the months leading up to the 2008 election makes one question why exactly that happened. Was it because of the recession as Obama stated, or from pressure from politicians on oil companies to lower the prices, so that the people in power (GOP) could claim a success, or that they were concerned about the consumer as opposed to their mega-rich pals running the oil industry?

Either way, to keep asserting that the high gas prices are somehow Obama's fault, is factually dishonest, and I keep hoping that Obama will just come out and say so.

-TS-
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You have anything that actually backs the assertion that oil Cos. ever reduced pump prices based on anything other then crude price, and transportation and refining costs?

IIRC, the Saudi's do appear from time to time to have 'helped' US politicians by increasing production, effectively reducing crude price.

ps. Do you also believe speculation (rather than global demand) is the reason crude prices stay high?
 
Romney's win in the first debate has been negated by four words: Binders Full of Women
 
marksman said:
I don't know about that. That's a bit long for a one-liner, and it really would have seemed like an awkward response to "Have you reviewed your pension?" If he had just delivered the line int he form it should have been delivered, it would have gone over better.

ROMNEY: Have you reviewed your pension?
OBAMA: Of course I have. It didn't take long, since it's not as big as yours.

Even better if he could cite what proportion is in foreign companies.

ROMNEY: Have you reviewed your pension?
OBAMA: My government pension is doing a lot better than most folks out there. And it invests 80% in American companies. What's your pension got? 60%?

But, yeah. I think it was a prepared joke and he flubbed it and then tried to recover.

But as I said before it's not a big deal. I don't think it cost him anything in the debate, and the press seemed to like it well enough.
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Either bias has blinded me or it has given you the gift of mind reading. I accept that the former is possible but I just don't see where you are getting this.
 
AlBell said:
ps. Do you also believe speculation (rather than global demand) is the reason crude prices stay high?
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What exactly do you mean when you say "stay high"?

oilgraphcrudeoilprices5.gif
 
AlBell said:
Here's your fact check.

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles...sidential.Campaign.Fact.Check/?cid=hero_media

Who told more lies?
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Here's how Politifact rates it (for the parts they've checked, which doesn't include Romney's lie about seeking out women's groups.)

Obama
3 True
3 Mostly true
1 Half true
2 False

Romney
1 True
2 Mostly true
3 Half true
1 Pants on Fire

So Obama has 66% true or mostly true compared to 43% (and likely to decrease) for Romney.

Politifact is a Pulitzer Prize-winning source.

PS. That doesn't even mention the number of times that Romney mentioned how the deficit increased under Obama. I was very surprised that Obama didn't mention the fact that one of the biggest reasons is because he finally put the two wars on the books. I guess he didn't want to be accused of "blaming Bush", even though the increase is clearly due in great part to Bush.
 
AlBell said:
The word 'terrorist' in his Oct 12 remarks was imo in no way obviously discussing Benghazi.
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In your opinion, is it obvious that any of the remarks the President made in the Rose Garden on the day after the Benghazi attack were directed toward that incident?
 
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