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2010 census survey isn't optional

slingblade said:
http://www.gazette.com/articles/census_39696___article.html/office_bureau.html

My first reaction to this was "Oh no, hell no, you don't!"

I'm not even sure why I react that way, really. A bunch of nebulous stuff about intrusion, privacy, government strong-arming the populace....

I'm fairly certain this information is innocuous, not invasive, and should be had by at least one department of the government and probably more.

So why does it rankle so?
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In all fairness (annoyance at spending time filling out forms for free for the gov't aside) afaik the gov't always has had that requirement for the census (especially for those doing the long form of it (I'm assuming it's still interview, short form, long form). At least it's only every ten years, unlike the (gumble,grumble, humbug) income tax.

:):):)
 
madurobob said:
What I find hilarious is they already have all this info and more in various databases. If they would simply do a little data mining of tax returns, Social Security and welfare data, etc.. they'd have all they need.

Then, they could send out a personalized "census" saying "here is what we know about you - please correct any errors or omissions". That might freak people out at first.. but I think it would be good to know what they think they know about me.
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They do use data bases for most folks. It's only that 10% erso that they want to built a detailed base for, for comparison. Sort of like the way the IRS audits a small percent to define norms of the masses.

Frinstance, in 2000 I was living in my commercial space. Nobody ever knocked on my door to check for an occupant count. I hated the idea that I didn't count. So I called the census folks. They said since I had filed returns I was in their data someplace.
 
Is the fine for refusing to return the questionarre, or refusing to fill it out in full?

I'm fine with mailing it back with my headcount on it.
 
fuelair said:
In all fairness (annoyance at spending time filling out forms for free for the gov't aside) afaik the gov't always has had that requirement for the census (especially for those doing the long form of it (I'm assuming it's still interview, short form, long form). At least it's only every ten years, unlike the (gumble,grumble, humbug) income tax.

:):):)
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Possibly because the headline and attendant article made it sound as if this fine business was new for 2010. I never paid much attention before, frankly.

However, I haven't exactly run about wildly, ranting and spewing hate speech about the eebil gubmint. All I said was this whole "fill this thing out, honestly and in full, or we'll fine you a tidy sum" rankled a bit.

Don't get me connecting it with the IRS, or I may, in fact, spew. ;)
 
ServiceSoon: Again, no. I thought you would have known this, but..

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
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It is hard to argue that education and health care are not part of this.
 
In Australia we have a census every 5 years. It includes a question on nationality (what countries were you and your parents born?) and race (are you an Australian Aborigine?). Yes these questions must be answered.
 
in 1980 an interviewer actually knocked on our door. don't really remember much else about ti tho'.
 
Aw, come on, people. This is the census bureau, Department of Commerce we're talking about here, not the CIA and AT&T. Their databases are accessible online - how many have actually looked? And local problems are all well and good until the locals need data about their problems. They can either spend your local tax money and find out the answers piecemeal, or they can go to big brother's database and find them out for next to nothing.

As for abuse of power, tell me one action in which the census data was involved which lead to fraud at any level? The closest I know about is the damned HR apportionment - the original reason for the census in any case - and that's because there are live congress critters and their phoney-baloney jobs involved (tip of the hat to "The Gov" William J. Le Petomane). But who has had their personal census records from the census stolen, or printed in the paper? (Can't say the same about your credit cards, safe in the banking system behind secure defenses and encrypted, right?)

I commiserate with PetersCreek - an anonymous call on the phone is no excuse to say anything. But he next time you wind up needing stats on the average electricity use in homes in Delaware, or the number of toilets per house in Miami, Florida, where getting rid of sewage is traditionally difficult, or the expected number of school kids to be hitting school district J-1 in Montana three years hence, give another think to that urge to be a stubborn twit. You do believe in planning, don't you? Or do you enjoy the expense of guessing, running short and missing the mark?

madurobob said:
What I find hilarious is they already have all this info and more in various databases. If they would simply do a little data mining of tax returns, Social Security and welfare data, etc.. they'd have all they need.
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Yeah - just how paranoid to you think citizens might be about being old that? Ask he Pentagon - they'll give you a good estimate.
 
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Rika said:
ServiceSoon: Again, no. I thought you would have known this, but..

It is hard to argue that education and health care are not part of this.
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Thanks for giving me so much undeserving credit. General Welfare clause. You do know that the topic of the general welfare clause is the center of much disagreement?

Rika said:
Bob: Except the tenth amendment a) isn't enforced anymore and b) trumped by the fact federal > state.

It's rather basic.
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It doesn't bother you that an amendment is completely overlooked and ignored? We should investigate the purpose of this amendment and decide, as outlined in the constitution if we should abolish or alter this amendment.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:
I enjoy watching the paranoid, nut-right get themselves worked up into a tizzy every 10 years. I guess they figure the gubmit will use the info to come and confiscate their beloved guns.
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If they were asking about my guns, I might have that concern...but they haven't, so I don't. As it is, I'm employed by the "gubmit". I'm sure you'll understand if I don't move my belongings into your pigeon hole. It's cramped and it smells funny. :rolleyes:
 
Okay, well, no. State governments usually can't raise the types of funding the federal can, and the federal (so far, I'm looking at YOU Louisana, and Kansas) is so far slightly saner..

... in any case, no. The tenth amendment really can't apply now without someone having to find a line where it should and shouldn't, and I regret to say I'm not that smart nor that researched enough.

But enough of this sidetrack.
 
Rika said:
It is hard to argue that education and health care are not part of this.
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Oh, but it's not. It's incredibly easy, in fact to do just that. All one has to do is look at Madison's commentary on that part of the Constitution:
James Madison said:
With respect to the words "general welfare," I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.
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Since he wrote the damned thing, I suspect he has a better insight into its text and its meaning than you do.
 
RadioactiveMan said:
Oh, but it's not. It's incredibly easy, in fact to do just that. All one has to do is look at Madison's commentary on that part of the Constitution:

Since he wrote the damned thing, I suspect he has a better insight into its text and its meaning than you do.
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Since he's been dead for 200 years, I suspect he does not.
 
There's been a census every 10 years and it's never been optional.

What's that old saying? Those who do not know history are doomed to get excited about mundane stuff the rest of us already know. Something like that.
 
drkitten said:
Since he's been dead for 200 years, I suspect he does not.
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Only an idiot would think the meaning of the words changes over the course of time.

If that were the case, what's to stop the meaning of freedom of speech or religion to change into something that doesn't mean freedom of speech or religion?

Only an idiot...
 
GodMark2 said:
So we can know where to find all those Japs. That makes it easier for us to encourage their relocation to alternate living facilities away from the bulk of population.

Ya know, for their own protection.
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That has nothing to do with collecting the data. That only has to do with a weak people wanting a strong government.
 
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