10 story hole in WTC 7

[Christopher7]

hmmmm interesting. I wonder if you really understand what load transfer actually means?

Yes.

Do you understand that in order for the building to 'lean', most of the exterior columns and all the interior columns would have to become shorter ie: buckel.

This would creat a bulge in the east and west walls, that would get larger as it approached the south side.

east wall in shadow = afternoon

west wall in light = afternoon

All the photographs and videos of WTC 7, some from late in the afternoon, clearly show that
WTC 7 is not leaning.

Note the edge of the Vorizon building [on left]

WTC 7 is not leaning!

The leaning tower is based on a statement of a single bystander.

There is no mention of this 'lean' in the NIST report.

 

[Arus808]

why would wtc 7 need to lean?

 

[Christopher7]

We do not have physical evidence

You're right. WE don't.

Neither does NIST [or anybody else]

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NCSTAR1-3ExecutiveSummary.pdf

pg 2
"no steel from the building [WTC 7] was recovered"

pg 9
"No steel was recovered from WTC 7"

Contrary to what some here believe, NIST did NOT inspect the steel from WTC 7 because they did not have any!

 

[Belz...]

Do you understand that in order for the building to 'lean', most of the exterior columns and all the interior columns would have to become shorter ie: buckel.

Most ?

WTC 7 is not leaning!

Because you can't see it in pictures ?

Neither does NIST [or anybody else]

Isn't that a report about the towers, not 7 ?

 

[jaydeehess]

Do you understand that in order for the building to 'lean', most of the exterior columns and all the interior columns would have to become shorter ie: buckel.

You mean like in the towers?

Well, buckled and/or severed.

 

[aggle-rithm]

Neither does NIST [or anybody else]

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NCSTAR1-3ExecutiveSummary.pdf

pg 2
"no steel from the building [WTC 7] was recovered"

pg 9
"No steel was recovered from WTC 7"

Contrary to what some here believe, NIST did NOT inspect the steel from WTC 7 because they did not have any!

No, they didn't. That's because the team lacked two important qualities needed to see through the "official story":

1. Ignorance
2. Paranoia

The report also doesn't mention any steel recovered from WTC 6. Why don't you find THAT suspicious? Or do you?

 

[njslim]

The FDNY uses surveyor transits to check buildings where they suspect the
structure is unsound and may collapse. According to all accounts from the
FDNY - a transit was set up to monitor WTC 7 at approx 2PM on visible
bulge on the south/west sides of the building. By 3PM a collapse zone
had been established around WTC 7 and everyone was warned to stay clear
(I heard the radio warnings going out from my firehouse in New Jersey)
6 months after at a seminar concerning operations during 9/11 heard from a
FDNY chief who set up and monitored the transit that they could see the
building moving which is why the collapse zone and warnings were issued.
The FDNY at this time realized that WTC 7 was coming down - it waas only
a matter of when it collpased, which it did at 5:20.

 

[jaydeehess]

The FDNY uses surveyor transits to check buildings where they suspect the
structure is unsound and may collapse. According to all accounts from the
FDNY - a transit was set up to monitor WTC 7 at approx 2PM on visible
bulge on the south/west sides of the building. By 3PM a collapse zone
had been established around WTC 7 and everyone was warned to stay clear
(I heard the radio warnings going out from my firehouse in New Jersey)
6 months after at a seminar concerning operations during 9/11 heard from a
FDNY chief who set up and monitored the transit that they could see the
building moving which is why the collapse zone and warnings were issued.
The FDNY at this time realized that WTC 7 was coming down - it waas only
a matter of when it collpased, which it did at 5:20.

What more need be said? FDNY saw the building moving and deduced it was unstable at or shortly after 3PM!!!
End of story.

 

[Christopher7]

I did not say you questioned the sequence. Perhaps you'd care to read the whole sentence.

This thread was started to find out if OTers believed the '10 story gouge' in the middle of WTC 7, not how it effected the collapse sequence.
So far, you are the only one who has been honest enough to acknowledge that existance of the '10 story gouge' is unlikely.
5 or 6 people have said they believe the '10 stoty gouge' did exist in spite of the 4 statements to the contrary.

 

[Arus808]

well, I believe that there was a BIG hole.. as to its size, its anybody's guess. that the report of "10 story" size is a combination of several reports by eyewitnesses..

WHICH WAS STATED IN THE NIST PRELIMINARY REPORT!

 

[jaydeehess]

,,,,, and several others said they were unsure.
At any rate by my count few, if any, believe as you do, that NIST requires it to be so for the preliminarily derived sequence to have occured.

If you believe you have 'won' something so be it. I'll buy you a coffe if we ever meet.

Now that that is over then, perhaps you'd care to outline the evidence of a controlled demolition. Start by taking on one question, did the NYFD play any part in an explosive demolition of WTC 7?

 

[Christopher7]

Most ?

Because you can't see it in pictures ?

Isn't that a report about the towers, not 7 ?

Yes. Virtually all except the north wall.

Yes. And: It was NOT part of the NIST collapse senerio.
If the building was leaning, it would have been noted in the report.

Read it. It's about WTC 1, 2 & 7.
It clearly states [pg 2 & 9] that "no steel was recovered from WTC 7"

 

[Christopher7]

You mean like in the towers?

Well, buckled and/or severed.

No

Yes

 

[Christopher7]

No, they didn't. That's because the team lacked two important qualities needed to see through the "official story":

1. Ignorance
2. Paranoia

The report also doesn't mention any steel recovered from WTC 6. Why don't you find THAT suspicious? Or do you?

No

 

[Christopher7]

The FDNY uses surveyor transits to check buildings where they suspect the
structure is unsound and may collapse. According to all accounts from the
FDNY - a transit was set up to monitor WTC 7 at approx 2PM on visible
bulge on the south/west sides of the building. By 3PM a collapse zone
had been established around WTC 7 and everyone was warned to stay clear
(I heard the radio warnings going out from my firehouse in New Jersey)
6 months after at a seminar concerning operations during 9/11 heard from a
FDNY chief who set up and monitored the transit that they could see the
building moving which is why the collapse zone and warnings were issued.
The FDNY at this time realized that WTC 7 was coming down - it waas only
a matter of when it collpased, which it did at 5:20.

moving ?

Source ?

 

[Christopher7]

What more need be said? FDNY saw the building moving and deduced it was unstable at or shortly after 3PM!!!
End of story.

None of the Chief's who thought the building was coming down said anything about the building moving in the the Oral Histories or the Firehouse interviews.
They all sited debris damage/fire as their reasons.

 

[Gravy]

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5269/copyofnw12xy.jpg
WTC 7 is not leaning!

The leaning tower is based on a statement of a single bystander.

Whether or not is was leaning, it appeared to be to some people.

Anyway, I was looking at WTC7 and I noticed that it wasn’t looking like it was straight. It was really weird. The closest corner to me (the SE corner) was kind of out of whack with the SW corner. It was impossible to tell whether that corner (the SW) was leaning over more or even if it was leaning the other way. With all of the smoke and the debris pile, I couldn’t exactly tell what was going on, but I sure could see the building was leaning over in a way it certainly should not be. I asked another guy looking with me and he said “That building is going to come down, we better get out of here.” So we did. –M.J., Employed at 45 Broadway.

Christopher7, in October, NIST revised its south face damage assessment. What is their new assessment?

 

[Christopher7]

,,,,, and several others said they were unsure.
At any rate by my count few, if any, believe as you do, that NIST requires it to be so for the preliminarily derived sequence to have occured.

I do not believe the damage allegedly done by the '10 story gouge' is required for the sequence to have occured.

If you believe you have 'won' something so be it. I'll buy you a coffe if we ever meet.

It's not a mater of wining or losing.

I'm just pointing out, using the same official documents that OTers quote as evidence for the debris damage/fire hypothesis, that some of their strongly held beliefs are wrong:

The gouge, floor 10 to the ground in the middle of WTC 7 did not exist

NIST did not inspect the steel from WTC 7

WTC 7 was not leaning

Now that that is over then, perhaps you'd care to outline the evidence of a controlled demolition. Start by taking on one question, did the NYFD play any part in an explosive demolition of WTC 7?

Once again, This thread is about the incorrect statements in support of the debris damage/fire hypothesis.
I am not going to debate CD's in this thread.

We still have the movement claim to clear up.
Then we can discuss the fires.

I do not think that FDNY had anything to do with, or knowledge of, the explosives.

 

[Arus808]

again, what is the POINT you're trying to get at Chris?

Why are you so stuck on what a preliminary report states?

Why dont you WAIT until the final version comes out.

Because debating about 'possibles" and "not possibles" is pointless.

Why dont you just list what you think happened to WTC 7 and not worry about what the NIST report states?

 

[Christopher7]

Whether or not is was leaning, it appeared to be to some people.

One person.
Do you know of any one else who thought WTC 7 was leaning ?

Christopher7, in October, NIST revised its south face damage assessment. What is their new assessment?

The only document i have from October '06 is the Technical Summary and they don't mention the damage to the south face.
Your source ?